R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Saint Patrick's day went well. I met wife for lunch so we could get a corned beef sandwich (well ruben, but I digress) and the place changed their menu's last week.
So for dinner we grabbed the boys and went to an irish pub (second choice cause the first was as busy as I've ever seen it with the NCAA basketball tourney going on AND March 17th). the dinner was pretty ok, they had lots of music and a dance group of Irish Dancers, so that was neat. we went to the gym and home for the night.
the last couple of weeks have been pretty busy.
I think last time I journaled I had just gone to my first roller derby practice. I've been a couple of times since and augmented further by taking the kids to open skate and going to roller skating lessons for figure skaters ($4 for an hour lesson - I'll take it). Anyway, I am having a blast so far, and don't see that changing any time soon. It is harder than it looks but I am up for the challenge.
Wife has been awfully supportive of this endeavor and actually helped me find and order all of my pads. we spent a while looking to make sure I got the best deal for the best pads. it was pretty nice. During the shopping, she started talking about bags to hold skates and pads and the like, and she let slip that she had been trying to find me a skate bag for our anniversary (in may) and wanted me to look at it first to make sure it is what I would want.
besides the fact that the bag WAS PERFECT, I was floored by how in advance she was looking for something...6 weeks away. she never ever shops that far in advance for me for anything, usually it is more reactive when she finds out i'd bought her something or was even planning on shopping for something for her...for years it was always an 'oh, I thought we weren't going to exchange presents' approach for holidays...not that we had EVER discussed such a thing. anyway, I can't wait to see if she buys that one for me or something else entirely.
Next week is going to be a short one. We are leaving for spring break on Thursday to drive down to Florida. similar trip as last year, it was awesome so I don't mind at all. her folks are staying down there for months so kids to see them and we can do it on the cheap. Oh and there is lots and lots of sun If there are any Fort Myers Folks down there...hope to run into you, I will be the blanched looking guy who hasn't seen the sun in months
I don't have a ton of plans this year for stuff to do, I am actually looking forward to some kayaking again, fishing, sitting around by the pool, relaxing, reading, get some exercise in when I can...yay.
I will post while I am there, but likely not huge, long Zepyrian style wall of word posts.
Hi V, I finished that book last week and wanted it to sink in a bit. I have ordered body keeps score as the next book.
I agree with you that much of what was written seams to be less quantitative and more observation / extrapolation. Nonetheless, from my own experiences with W and with a few other folks in my life, there is plenty of the material that matches head on.
Other things, not so much. I guess what I am saying is looks to be a good starting point if you were to be looking for information to get started on. Actual treatment or support advice, not so sure. First thing, it doesn't say a word on advice getting started once the spouse begins to WANT to start treatment. Here in DB land, it is a given, that there is no motivation from the LBS for that will help start the process...they have to Want to do it and can't start for someone else. The book assumes that your spouse has basically already chosen to take this path towards healing.
BTW, I think you are dead on with the PTSD treatment being not a great place to start for treatment strategies for someone who has been hurt decades before and this is just starting to unravel the façade that has been worn all of these years. For that there are not a ton of treatments that I have read are all that affective. I have read EMdR has a little better success, but I think ultimately it is the desire and (of course) resiliency of the 'thriver' (I REALLY LIKE THAT TERM V - THANK YOU) to actually heal that will determine success or failure. but first they need to accept and be willing to move forward with that acceptance...something I know I have not seen from wife or her sister in all of the last 25 years I've known them. Hell, neither one has been the slightest bit open or honest about their past at all over the years...to the point of frustration and confusion for me on what actually took place, what could be trigger, what situations are problematic, etc.
my SIL husband actually lives in another city right now from her and their kids. Wife of course blames HIM for ALL of it, but I know there are problems on both sides of that curtain, his childhood and hers. just another example of the lack of openness and willingness from the start...that will destroy that marriage too (well pretty much has).
Have to get back to work, but I wanted to share that I did finish that one and am going to start the next one this weekend.
Sunday had derby practice then spent the day with kids playing games and homework and a little tv with wife. Did have to do bills, hung up a picture that has been there since before xmas (yikes), cleaned out the traps and drains from all the bathroom sink (yucks).
Also did a little shopping with wife on saturday afternoon. More on that later.
Did figure skating lessons on monday, then gym and guitar. I also went and bought myself some new skates so i dont have to borrow any from the rink...yay!
Today i will go to roller derby practice then gym.
Wednesday i have a school board meeting for facility committee i got involved with last fall.
Then thursday off to florida. We are going to drive so will get down there friday night. I will post some when i get there.
So anything more...yes, i continue to struggle sometimes. Some days wife and i take shower together, we change in front of each other, show each other bruises or injuries from all the activity...even when we went shoping she had me 'help' pick out new bathing suit and nighty. She is often very warm...then other times, just sooo cold.
Grest example, The other day i went to reach for the shifter while i was driving, and wife actually flinched like i was a stranger on a train or something. It was disheartening.
I dont want to belabor this...i realize there is just so much other crap in motion here. I know this all takes time. Knowing this still doesnt make things easier to live with. I just feel those situations, where her actions (away from me) speak way louder than her words or actions towards me.
Have to go, but one other topic i have been trying to explore...is my sensitivity / history with rejection. There are tons of indicators that my fathers treatment of me have a foothold in my mind.
The more i keeo digging into that the more i see how my fathers lack of affection, acceptance or involvement in my upbringing laid the ground works. He worked hard, yes ...it is where i got MY work ethic...as my brothers too, but he wasnt around. I remeber only a few instances where he showed me any positive reinforcement with anything i did right or worked hard at, none of my 'victories', nothing.
I remeber he used to whip out a$$es for punishment, no matter if we were guilty of something or not, until there was an admittamce of guilt from one of the four of us. I remeber vividly admitting to something my brother(s) did to stop us all getting whipped more. This happened multiple times.
Yesterday i was sitting at my desk thinking through these sorts of situations trying to rationalize it all, but i couldnt. My father was not in the right. As i was recalling a particularly angry father duung on of these belt whipping sessions while he swung away at four kids with bare backsides...i could only picture my own children in my brothers place. Yesterday at my desk, i balled for hours with the anger at my father for that. It haunted me deeply thinking that i could not protect my brothers except by taking the blame myself and getting extra punishment. We are talkin 10 year olds +/-. I am still having problems right now with thst. I went home and just hugged them both last night.
He was wrong. I know that now. I thought for years he was doing what he knew. F-that. He was wrong and that is something i will need to work on moving forward with forgiveness when i am ready. My brothers have discussed it barely, again something i will breach with them moving forward.
Is this my connection with my wifes past that HB and so many others talk about, maybe. I continue to serch for answers for my behaviors, for truggers for hers...fruitless maybe. I have to keep unraveling my past tring to figure me out...i know there is more with my mother with her controlling, passive-agressive guilt-first upbring style...but that is for another day I've typed enough today on the phone.
I hear your frustration about your hot/cold W. It must be hard to have made such progress and still have moments like that.
You have done your research and know what you see. Try nit take these situations personally and also try to avoid looking at them as YOUheing rejected. Sometimes W could have negative thoughts towards you but often it could actually gave absolutely nothing to do with you or ye.
I am not sure it is necessary or even healthy to focalise too much on the sources of issues and possible correlation with current thinking/behavior.I am not against it and anything that helps you is great. If you have a behaviour or thinking pattern that you don't think is serving you, I would focus on how to change it rather than it's root cause. Sometimes this under standing may be necessary but often it isn't IMO. Maybe cognitive behavior training/techniques are what you should apply. I'm no specialist so take that as just my viewpoint
Your dads behavior was wrong. It surely affected you. Again this is something CBT could help you with. On a side note I don't think that anyone has or is a perfect parent. We do our best. This process has helped us dig deep and our kids will benefit from that.
Enjoy spring break.
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
I am reading your post above and marinating, sometimes it takes a great deal of time.
Incest and abuse as FOO is both difficult and easy to recover from.
Why do I say easy?
That seems enormously strange to those who have more balanced childhoods and good enough parenting.
Easy as in reality the child is NEVER to blame not ever in any way whatsoever. I think as adults the first thing we must do is place the responsibility where it belongs on the abuser. Society tells us we must forgive and honour our mothers and fathers. That blaming is the worst thing we can do.
I believe recovery starts and ends with blaming, in forgiving ourselves for not wanting to forgive our abusers. By being able to go NC and make space for ourselves.
Then with extreme self care, really truly extreme in all ways to recover our health our minds and our bodies.
Next I think we need touch, for ourselves, with others, therapists, dentists, doctors, manicurist, hairdressers, friends and bowing and Havening techniques. Even eventually sexual healing.
Before we even begin any of this we have to accept we were abused or neglected, and know that abuse. The level of it in our bodies and spirit, bring it to reality and awaken the pain. To not deny it and stand in it. To know our ACE score. See the damage, and at least initially care for and name that part of us that was harmed and hurt.
We are allowed our pain and to wallow in it. We are allowed to comfort ourselves to be self centred in it. To throw all our resources into recovery. We are allowed destruction and rebuild of ourselves. To take time, to rework and to recycle our pain.
It is to tell our previous child that they are safe and that we love them. To take revenge on our abusers even if that it is impossible. We can blow wide open the abuse to daylight to include this in our story.
To rework our lives and to atone if we must.
We can keep ourselves open to change, we must accept and want. We must say I will not be abused and I will shine light in dark corners.
Others often tell me I am brave for being open about the abuse and PTSD. 12 stepping tells us that this is the only way to be. To take an inventory of our faults and share them with another.
That is the truth as I see it.
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So why hard?
Healing is work. FOO and incest is held in the body and can be released slowly. The body can function as it must, release of addictions, compulsions and co-dependency require vigilance.
This can never be done whilst drugged. Sadly those with bipolar are unlikely to recover as the body finds it difficult to repair in medication. Self medication too must stop.
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It has to be more than desire to heal, sadly it means work.
This may come in stages Zephyr. If you heal then you can provide for yourself a healing environment. You lead by example.
The very best that you can do for another is to provide the environment in which healing is possible.
These are my current thoughts and they are developing.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Next I think we need touch, for ourselves, with others, therapists, dentists, doctors, manicurist, rdressers, friends and bowing and Havening techniques. Even eventually sexual healing.
Before we even begin any of this we have to accept we were abused or neglected, and know that abuse. The level of it in our bodies and spirit, bring it to reality and awaken the pain. To not deny it and stand in it. To know our ACE score. See the damage, and at least initially care for and name that part of us that was harmed and hurt.
We are allowed our pain and to wallow in it. We are allowed to comfort ourselves to be self centred in it. To throw all our resources into recovery. We are allowed destruction and rebuild of ourselves. To take time, to rework and to recycle our pain.
It is to tell our previous child that they are safe and that we love them. To take revenge on our abusers even if that it is impossible. We can blow wide open the abuse to daylight to include this in our story.
To rework our lives and to atone if we must.
We can keep ourselves open to change, we must accept and want. We must say I will not be abused and I will shine light in dark corners.
Others often tell me I am brave for being open about the abuse and PTSD. 12 stepping tells us that this is the only way to be. To take an inventory of our faults and share them with another.
That is the truth as I see it V
I think you are are a seer lady V. Some saay u may be brave...i think you have a stalwart heart!
Understanding, accepting parental shortcommings/abuse/bullshit/whatever is a good first step. My ace score pretty low. Still not acceptable as not a zero. Still have $hit to work through and need to releive myself of the weight ive put on my own shoulders all these years.
Still not wifes problems but my own to figure out!
We made our voyage to florida in thursday-friday. Nearly 20 hours of driving, howver very pleasant trip. Lots of goofing around. Boys didnt really start getting cagey untill about 100 miles out...i call that a win.
We have been doing a little bit, not too crazy-running (not my style, i like a little relaxation mixed in with my vacation).
Last night went to a derby practice for a local women's team. They were awesome to us as guests. Very friendly.
Yesterday was S11 birthday (ten-teen as my Busha used to say). We had some aunts and uncles come by for some games, cake and ice cream for the boy. That was pleasant.
Otherwise lots of swimming, running (it is humid as hades down here), little fishing, plenty of sun, looks calm enough for some kayaking today, dancing and music tonight, beach tomorow, brewery tomorow, rum distillery on Thursday...plus some other stuff.. .i have been searching for other more family activites for thursday and friday.
We leave for chicago on saturday, bright and early so we will try to fill the time with fun and relaxation.
Oh, yesterday wife asked if i wanted to do a trial kickboxing class with her (5 - 1 hr classes for like 15 bucks per person). Told her it sounded awesome, will be a great cross training excersize (and you get a pair of starter gloves too).
For years and years i would have made excuses not to try something new. I just can't even fathom NOT doing something like this now.
I hope you are all well.
id love to send pics of the sunsets for you all to see...they are marvelous!
Recently I have an urge to retry Kickboxing.I was pretty good at it: n my teens and I loved the cross training aspect.
Enjoy the rest of your trip. I hope the UNexpected happens!!
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
If there are any Fort Myers Folks down there...hope to run into you, I will be the blanched looking guy who hasn't seen the sun in months 