WAW online EA and maybe MLC

[cubebot]

Still absorbing your post Maximus. Thank you for your thoughts. I did have a Q for one of your points.

7) You intend to love her in sickness and in health but want to facilitate or get a D?

She is filing out papers to go file. She claims to need some financial information which I believe is related to support. I have already told her D is not what I want and I will not be a part of this, but that I cannot control what she chooses to do. Is it facilitating to give her this info or is it pointless to drag my feet from a DB point of view?

--Do I give her this info and not try to control the situation or do I tell her I will not assist and that she can figure it out on her own?

I feel like ton's of people get blindsided with D papers and probably don't give this info up before. I am conflicted in this. L's say it won't hurt me if I give it to her from a legal point of view.

[sandi2]

Thinking of pulling a... I want to flip the script and make her think I am breaking up with her. I am tired of her saying, "just because YOU don't want a divorce doesn't mean xxxxx" I think I am beyond LRT anyways. I know that I need to set her free (for myself) and drop the rope

Why do you think you are beyond the LRT? How do you see the LRT? Isn't that why you're wanting to give this speech, b/c you think it's your last resort?

Ordinarily I am usually one who encourages the LBH to act as if he is dropping his wayward W. However, I just don't get a good vibe here, and I think it is b/c you are desperately trying to find the right trick that turns her around. I think most LBH'S experience this feeling. They want to bypass all this stuff they see other posters doing and find something that works a lot quicker and will end the pain.

In another post you listed reasons for wanting to give Gucci's speech, and you have said you need to take action b/c you have been inactive throughout this ordeal. From my point of view I am not seeing action. I am seeing a LBH talking, again, to his WW and hoping his words will work this time in changing her mind. Frankly, the speech sounds a bit manipulative to me. And if your W has accused you of controlling........she will see this being more of the same. You are trying to bluff her out of filing for D, and I am concerned this will backfire. Maybe it's the part about telling her that if she wants to work on the real issues then you are willing, IDK. I mean, it sounds as if you could care less in some places (to the point of rudeness), and looking back to see if she's going to reconsider in other places.

If you give this speech........and she doesn't do what you are hoping........then what will you pull out of your bag?

I am not saying to tell her anything, but if you insist on taking this route, at least make it sound like something from you.......and not another man's words.

[CWOL]

Great advice, Sandi.
You nailed it on the head. All of us LBH's are always looking for the silver bullet to kill the werewolf OM. But it doesn't exist.
We've all gone through this stage in the beginning, starting with pleading, groveling, etc. None of that works, otherwise we wouldn't be here to start with.
I see the learning on this forum is from other posters' incremental progress and approaches, not a specific move or tactic to "straighten out" your WW.

[cubebot]

Well I guess for the most part I would say that I have been LRT and I think I have been following the rules pretty closely. I don't have any contact with her unless about logistics around kids, haven't initiated any R talks in weeks, GAL'ing with friends old and new 1-3x a week, 180's are still something I can do better with dedicating myself to.

I guess my wanting to try something new is due to just seeing her continue on her exit path. I need to accept and deal with the fact that it is going to get worse before it would even be possible to get better and I have no control over the choices she is making. She is a long way from hitting bottom. She is still living with family, with no job or responsibilities playing her game all day and nothing but her fantasy life ahead of her (own place, dream job etc. in future once D).

I think the most immediate issue I need to address is the below in regards to her request as this does require some form of action from me.


She is filing out papers to go file. She claims to need some financial information which I believe is related to support. I have already told her D is not what I want and I will not be a part of this, but that I cannot control what she chooses to do. Is it facilitating to give her this info or is it pointless to drag my feet from a DB point of view?

--Do I give her this info and not try to control the situation or do I tell her I will not assist and that she can figure it out on her own?


Inaction is something I am good at...lol, although I do tend to overthink things. To be honest this question or similar only pop up when she see's me GAL'ing (dressed up in new clothes dropping kids off to go see friends etc.) or executing my 180's (asserted myself about decisions with kids I previously posted and not just letting her make the decision as I had in the past).

[cubebot]

Maximus,

well spoken my friend. Thank you for jumping in here as requested. I will try my best to reply with my thoughts

1) I am not the most religious person granted. But I would suggest you leave religion out of this as well as poetry. Each one has his own way of dealing with adversity but your problem will only be solved by you with your head screwed on straight.

I will agree that the poetry is probably not the best DB resource and I could probably find anything to support my emotional thoughts if I looked hard enough. My religion is my rock, although once you said this I did some thinking. I am not following the scripture that is being taught to me. I am not being patient and waiting until it is me who must act.
Isaiah 40:31
But those who wait on the Lord
Shall renew their strength;
They shall mount up with wings like eagles,
They shall run and not be weary,
They shall walk and not faint.

2) Why is it that when men are BD their idea of GAL and detaching is focusing on kids, cleaning the house and going to the gym? Sandi wrote previously on another post that interaction was more important. I also believe that. How you interact with your W is more important than how you interact with kids or how clean you leave the house. If you did have a bad relation with your kids then by all means work on that but for your R with them not to get W back. As for house cleaning or staying at home I dont think when your W looks at you she will judge you on how clean the fridge is.

I wouldn't say I had a bad relationship prior to BD with my kids, but I have them 6 nights a week after work and i am taking advantage of this time to strengthen my bond with them. I make a point for WW to watch them one night on the weekend so that I can GAL and blow off some steam with by pals. I also pick them up later two nights a week so that I can have some me time and do what I please. She was a HORRIBLE house keeper for the last year and I wasn't happy with it. I don't think I really relized it until after she left but I resented her for being a stay @ home and not putting any effort or pride into out home. Now that she is gone I want a tidy house for me. De-cluttering and boxing her crap up also helps me to get rid of the little reminders and triggers when i unwind in the evenings. Amazing how a razor in the shower or a shirt in the closet can trigger memories. Haven't attacked the fridge yet, but now that you mention it....j/k

3) Most of the LBH that have been called controlling and jealous by their wives generally are. It is true about not believing all that they say nor what they do. However on this do take note. You do have that pattern.

Agreed on this one. I am having issue letting go of control in this sitch and need to get better. Jealousy I think was after reading "no more Mr. Nice guy" was due to covert contracts and not being straight forward with what I needed. Working through that. Thank you for your insight as it helps to have affirmation that this was an issue and does need to be addressed.

4) Your irregular thoughts and actions are also textbook if you read enough posts. I too went through the phases of wanting to do anything to get them back, act illogically to want to be the one divorcing them. This is you wanting to provoke a reaction, generally because you are not controlling the situation. The situation is following a course and timeline different to what you want so you want to nudge it a bit and as it does not work you frustration creeps in and you jump around to extremes.

#Truth

5) You need to stop focusing on her and start focusing on yourself. I know you read it a lot here. Do you know what it actually means?

Not really. Seems selfish at first, but that's probably the "Nice guy" in me talking. I have started doing something for myself when i think about doing something for her. I like it. This I know is not selfish and I deserve it.

You say you have learned and are learning things about yourself? What have you learned?

I failed to ensure that my needs and wants were meet. I assumed if she was happy, I would also be. worked for the sex, but that only lasts so long. We had a great sex life up until the end. I found myself envious of the little things I noticed in other relationships. A random kiss from when another spouse walked by them, a loving text unsolicited during the day, a homemade lunch prepared and packed. Learning about the love languages has helped me realize I am physical touch, and acts of services, words of affirmation. i still struggle to understand what her's are. I think acts of service and probably words of affirmation. As I grew unhappy these slowly stopped being expressed by me to her.

Have you changed your way of thinking? have you adapted to this new knowledge? How has having a WW bring you closer to god? You say it has taught you be a better person and father what about partner?

I think understanding myself and my needs will allow me to better express what i need to be happy in both personal and professional life. I have also learned that I was looking for my happiness in her and not finding my own and sharing it with her. I see know that we should both have our own happiness independently and it becomes multiplied when shared with each other. I became co-dependent.

6) Stop "knowing" this and that. You say you know how this will end but leave many options open, you say you know what your WW wants but you know about not believing their words or actions and that not even they know what they want (as you say later ... she is a person lost), you then go on to describe someone you assume is your wife and what is going on in her mind when here you are taught to not do that. You know what she feels for the OM. Really how?

I broke a rule and snooped, that's how I know. It eats @ me and I guess it is now my burden to carry. Of course I do not truly know what is in her heart and if she is confused or if she may feel obligated to say/do things. I think anyone who engages with a married women and mother and willingly destroys a family is a needy, manipulative, piece of dog feces and she was vulnerable from what I read so I guess I should show compassion?? I do need to stop assuming but I can literally hear her filling out the D papers and asking for the $$ to go file (to which I said, "I will not be a part of or facilitate this D"). There has never been any "I need my space to think" or "I do still want you in my life, but xxx" Just were done, lets wrap this up ASAP. So I guess that eats at me as I read about other WW where this "cake eating' behavior seems a common theme. Not in my case. She has no advocates for our M, only advocates for D in her life.

7) You intend to love her in sickness and in health but want to facilitate or get a D?

No don't want to facilitate, i was going more for the I accept your decision and i will be fine. Clearly not ready to deliver this yet.

I think you should get back to basics. Stop trying to control the situation or find logic in it. There is none. That is why you have to concentrate on yourself first for your own sake and that of your children.

Basics, Check. I think rather than get back to, I need to start there first...lol

I thought I knew a lot of things until I realized I did not. The issue was that by stepping a back and letting everything unfold I saw the bigger picture. I was not affected as deeply by her actions. I expected them. I began to anticipate her actions and situations. I stood my ground and stopped trying to control everything. I started setting up the boundaries and controlling my own life.

I hope to get to this point.

It seems to be working. I cannot fix her nor make her happy. I believe we are piecing but still let her try and resolve the issues she has. She is still suffering internally, she tries to remedy bad decisions we made in the past. I just stand by in case I can help but my life is still my own.

I hope to get to this point.

I see her as what she is. A woman. Like me imperfect and trying to get it together. She no longer is the woman I knew years ago so I am starting to learn about this new person. Discover new things and act accordingly.

She has been removed from the pedestal and i do see her as a human. Imperfect, but so am I.

You need to accept that your WW is WW and judge her for what she is now and with all the crap that will follow. If she does sleep with OM or not does not matter unless a PA is a deal breaker for you. Your main concern should be you have lost her. You are not in her heart so whatever she does she is doing as an emotionally free person.

This is a scary thought and something i need to address. I was her first and that was special. Sadly once that is gone it is gone. I expect it to go and not sure how I will deal with once I get there. Hard to truly grasp this one and how I will react. As you stated though, she no longer has me in her heart and that frightens me. I need to work through this fear. not sure how to.


Thank you Max for you time and thoughts. Glad to hear that you are possibly in piecing. i wish you happiness and hope you will continue to stop by.

-Cubebot

[cubebot]

1. Yes. Let her experience the consequences for her own actions. However, you should not be in an overall inaction phase. Work on yourself - the only thing you can control.

You're right. it is hard for me to accept that I cannot prevent her from leaving and I am desperate to do ANYTHING that might put a speed bump in her choice. Unfortunately, I will probably just give her a free pass to the express lane if i don't do what seems unnatural. She needs to experience the consequences of her actions despite if they positive or negative. She fired me. I need to work on me. I am here because of my choices and actions up to this point and i need to DB.

3. Your boundaries should be establishing respect.

I struggle with this. I am getting better but still struggle. she is lie a rebellious teenager. I will start to post my thoughts on boundaries as they pop-up because I seem to convince myself they are vindictive or an ultimatum. they probably are, but maybe with help I can alter them to a more effective boundary

4. Depends on how you present it. Say you are disappointed, and you might as well hang your hat. Say you didn't agree with her choices and yet can see why, you have a shot (this part has quite a bit to deal with you growing from this experience and truly seeing what contributed to the downfall of your M)./quote]

I hear what you are saying. I feel like if i say I can understand why she will see that as validation for her choices and use it as justification for her actions to herself. I think she knows I don't want this and should just leave it @ that. Thoughts?


[quote=Squiggy]5. Why do I HAVE to control this situation and try and move it forward???? Am I really following the advice of the people on this board and implementing their suggestions (Maximus just gave you an excellent summary of 9 pages of you beating your head against a wall. Use it!)?

Cude, STOP CONTROLLING. You are being told that not trying to alter the course of her actions is OK. WORK ON YOU. SHE IS going to do her. ACCEPT THIS! DB!!!!

I get you wanting to push and make this move forward. I really do. I got so much backlash from people here urging me to stop, STFU, and listen. I got the rough side of sandi before as well. I'm beyond glad I listened. I really wish you would as well.

I will not give this declaration to her. I do need thoughts on how to address the info that she has requested from me. she

You know I'm direct and action-oriented. Damn near border on being a spitfire. BUT the DB focus of actions vs. your focus of actions are in conflict. I choose the DB side, because it is the side that will have a chance of working.

I too chose DB. i really do try to put everything up here so you all can talk me down from the ledge before I make a bad choice. for that i am grateful. also, totes excited for figuring the quote feature out.

[cubebot]

[i][/i]I think this got buried in my posts. Really appreciate anyones thoughts on this one thing that does require some action on my part.

She is filing out papers to go file. She claims to need some financial information which I believe is related to support. I have already told her D is not what I want and I will not be a part of this, but that I cannot control what she chooses to do. Is it facilitating to give her this info or is it pointless to drag my feet from a DB point of view?

--Do I give her this info and not try to control the situation or do I tell her I will not assist and that she can figure it out on her own?

I feel like ton's of people get blindsided with D papers and probably don't give this info up before. I am conflicted in this. L's say it won't hurt me if I give it to her from a legal point of view.

[sandi2]

I don't what the law states where you live. If you are refusing to give her financial statements in order to stall D proceedures, it just looks like more controlling, IMHO. Maybe someone else can give better advice about the papers. If she is he11 bent on filing, then the more you try to bury your heels in the ground and pull back on that rope.....the more she is going to fight you. She will be focused on her anger toward you. If she sees you are not going to stop her, she may be able to focus on something else. But that's just my opinion.

Giving her the papers does not mean you are in favor of a divorce.

[CWOL]

I think his question is, he can make it easy for her or make it hard for her.

Regarding the financial statements, in an adversarial divorce I would not volunteer too much information. That way you see what she has, and correct her mistakes on filing. Make sure you have the right version, which should make you look better to the court.

[cubebot]

Hi Sandi,

She is very focused on the D. I spoke with my L and it won't have any negative effect on me if I do give it to her. To be honest it is trivial info that i have to look up and she could file without it, and i would be required to provide it once the formal papers were served. I don't want to seem like dragging my feet nor supporting her actions so i wanted to get everyone's thoughts. I think I will just give it to her as her constant reminders of D are so emotionally tough on me. She will call me to ask a Q about kids, start to mention something about this that or the other and then go right to the D Q's once she realizes she is being normal. I guess this is typical WW behavior of pulling back when they think they are giving the LBH false hope. It is crazy, these aren't even long convo's 2-3 min's tops.