I cant help but notice a lot of contradictions in your statements as well as conclusions.
You mention you saw her worried but did not want to ask her in view of how things were but you were up for sweaty sex if she agreed. Where is the sense in that?
You talk about detaching but most of your posts are based on what she did or said to the minute details? If she played a particular song I am sure you will post asking if the lyrics mean anything and if the chorus reflects what she is feeling ... that sort of thing. Where is the detachment there?
You ask about having sex but still maintain the "IDFYA" statement in your head. You even question your attractiveness and mention you work out. What do you think a woman finds attractive? Why do women prefer the bad boys? Maybe because they treat everyone bad except her so she special? And if they are bad ass because she also feels protected? Do you think she will call them out because they forgot to take out the trash? I am not a "hot" guy (unless im sunbathing) but I have found myself more successful with women after learning how to interact with them. Interaction is fundamental but the real strength is self confidence. Be the guy who will get his nails painted pink for his daughter at home but turn his wife face down in the pillows on a sweaty night. Who will listen to the ramblings of his wife and call her out if she oversteps but drop the guy who says something inappropriate to her in a club. Examples.
You do 90% of the chores in and out of the house while she has a lie in yet you allow her to say she feels like a mother to you. When I was younger there was a person who did what you did and the house budget as well. She was my mother.
IMHO I think that your biggest problem is your attitude which results in all these issues. A strong pro active TNS (Take No Sh1t) attitude if in place automatically answers many of the questions for you as well as stop you from doing many actions.
You are always on the defensive. You are always batting out the balls thrown at you and then judged on your response. God forbid any get through. Change the game. Football/soccer. Become the goalkeeper and her the one taking the penalty. No one likes taking penalties when the game is on the line. They have more to lose.
Grow a pair and take the battle to her. She knows there will be peace so long as she wants it and she knows how to unsettle you. Unsettle her, make her start thinking about what is going through your head rather than hers. It is what we call changing the dynamics.
If she comes to give you a kiss on the lips put your cheek. If she comes to kiss your cheek, turn so it is cheek to cheek. If she goes to give you a hug do a 1 second hug, pat her on the back a couple of times to let her know you finished and continue what you are doing. If she goes to hold your hand, lift it up, kiss it with a peck and let go and continue with hands separated. Be amicable, caring but keep your distance.
NEVER NEVER initiate.
When she said the "hopefull we can at least ..." your reply was still needy and put on a plate a chance for her to shoot you down which she has a habit of. Something else you seem to overlook when worried about holding hands. Why not say "dont know about that but for sure parents to these amazing kids".
You dont seem to have much success at the MC. So here's a question, what would happen if you turned around tommorrow and said you were cancelling your sessions because you need to sort yourself out before having someone else do it. You need to make sure all the pieces are there before you attempt to make the puzzle.And you do cancel. How would she react?
The moment you stop worrying about p1ssing her off is the moment you start regainning self esteem and respect and seeing where you really are in this M. Which at this moment is with your b@lls under her stiletto.
One thing before I sign off. I know a lot may not agree with you or anyone else. Fine, but when you do defend your posture ask if it is because I am wrong or because you are worried about her reaction.
Sandi says that our W will challenge us and throw a fit if we stand ground but deep down they accept it and admire it.
Hi Maximus - you are right, I am all over the place, my emotions are like a yo-you right now. If I had it all worked out I wouldn't be here! I'm posting my latest interactions with my W but what I say here isn't necessarily what I'm telling my W. In otherwords, I'm biting my tongue as much as I can but have slipped up here and there (I know I should not have said 'hopefully more than friends' - realized it the second I said it but I'm doing my best). I set myself up to be shot down on that one for sure. I'm learning...slowly!
I'm not sure I follow parts of your post as I never said I questioned my attractiveness (said the opposite in fact - I'm feeling very confident in that regard) or that I would initiate sweaty sex (said if my wife initiated sex I wasn't sure what I should do - I don't really want sex until I feel sure our marriage issues are well underway to being resolved. I think I would feel used otherwise), and I don't do 90% of the chores, she does, and she should (told her that) as she works part-time out of the house. I have both been defending myself and taking the battle to her - it's been 50/50 of this the past few years. I don't think taking the battle to her is necessarily the right approach right now though - we are both just trying to let things calm down after the past few months of nuclear melt down. She hasn't been battling with me nor have I with her for weeks now.
I appreciate your examples of how to handle the kiss and hug - wish I had read this earlier this weekend. I'll try and keep these examples in mind if there is another next time. We had friends over on the weekend for a dinner party and had a few drinks. A Cat Stevens song came on which is a very beautiful slow song and my wife knows I'm a big fan of his (have seen him twice live in the past 5 years). Anyway, my W turned me around and started slow dancing with me for the entire song. I did feel a little awkward and certainly did not allow myself to get caught up in it (I was guarded). Ended with a kiss on the cheek from her and we moved on. Maybe I should have refused the dance - after all, it's not like she has told me that her feelings are coming back for me (attracted to me again). Our R is in a delicate position right now so I also don't want to put up another wall up when we are trying to tear them down. I'm not doing a very good job handling these situations.
As for the new MC, for what it's worth, my W saw her on Friday and she returned saying she really liked her and that she was much more optimistic about our M. I won't see her until later this week.
It sounds like you're doing great J. The in house stuff is rough. Always have to be "on" and assessing how to respond and then you question your response. It's a vicious cycle. Keep up the hard work. It will pay off.
Fight the good fight no matter the quality of your opponent.
Me-50 WAW-45 S13 Married 24 years Bomb 1-Jan.2008 Disc. EA She came back for 8 years Bomb 2-Jan-2016 Separation 3-12-2016
Screwed up a bit in a more negative way. This past weekend when I said we had people over for dinner and my W danced with me there was something else that happened but I didn't bring up with my W until two days later (last night). One of the couples that were over (were 4 couples there), the husband has a little crush or something on my W. When we went to the Dominican last October he had a few drinks mid-day and was looking my W up and down as she sun bathed. It was a little creepy, he's about 6 years older than us. I didn't say anything at that time as he was just looking so no real harm and saw nothing of that sort since then. Anyway, this weekend, when this same guy (and his W) were leaving, he gave my W a hug but he put his hand on my W butt cheek and patted it a couple of times. I wasn't happy to see that and felt it was disrespectful to both my W and I but I let it go - I didn't want to over react at the time. So I left it for two days and then last night I said to my W "how did you feel about Joe putting his hand on your butt and patting it when you gave him a hug good-bye". She said she didn't notice it which is possible but is a little hard to believe but I wasn't directing this at her. She also said it obviously bothered me but I responded with a question 'does it bother you'. I just wanted to know how she felt about him doing that. She said I don't know how I feel since I don't remember it happening so can't really comment. I felt she was being evasive since I told her already what he did so it didn't matter whether she remembered or not (I didn't want to get into whether she was lying about knowing he did this or not - no way to know), he put his hand in a place where he shouldn't have and that was crossing a line and very inappropriate. Again she said she couldn't comment as she couldn't remember it happening. This frustrated me I must admit. I asked her few more times about but then she just left the room mid-conversation saying she can't deal with this. She came back 10 mins later to use the bathroom in our room and I asked her to finish the conversation. I finally repeated exactly what he did and said it was highly inappropriate and she said well if you say that's what he did than yes it probably was inappropriate. I guess I just don't understand why she would be evasive in acknowledging this. The guy isn't particularly good looking or anythings so it's not like she's interested in him (all the A seekers can move on). Maybe she liked the attention - he is flirty. Anyway, she left mid conversation again and finally came to bed a half hour later and we both went to sleep and did not talk about it any more. I'm so sleep deprived these days and overly emotional I don't know what I'm doing anymore. To me, I couldn't just ignore it, I needed to call it out as he has shown some attention towards my W in the past and if it happens again I want the past issues on record sort of speak. I probably shouldn't have said anything but must admit it really bothered me - I have not been able to get detached obviously. It's hard to ignore something like this - to me, it's not ok and is completely inappropriate and needed to be addressed. Now, that left my W and I back in a funk. Will see what our interaction is like when I get home form work but I don't know if I should act as if nothing happened (nothing really did happen except I didn't like the way she handled my asking her about it. I think I was looking for some understanding from her but it was not there). I won't bring it up again since enough was said last night and the point was made. Again, feel like I've lost all the ground I had gained with my W with this little issue. I think I need some validation from my W. We all need it it would seem.
Just giving it some thought and I think the only thing I can do at this point is act like nothing happened, move on and get back to putting up a strong front. I don't think anything can be gained by me acting pissed off etc. I do feel better for calling it out and getting it off my chest at least but hopefully it did not set me back too far. I have my one on one with the new MC tomorrow night so if I feel it bothering me I can always chat with her about it - sometimes you just need to talk about it with someone.
Question, do you announce to your spouse that you need to spend more time apart if you are planning to really detach?
The guy isn't particularly good looking or anythings so it's not like she's interested in him (all the A seekers can move on). Maybe she liked the attention - he is flirty.
What do you mean "all the A seekers can move on"?
Look James, a woman knows when a man touches her in a place that should be reserved only for her H! If I had nothing but her response as evidence, it would be enough to tell me that she is being deceitful.
Some ladies would consider slapping a man's face if he was brazen enough to touch her inappropriately. I might even understand if she didn't want to cause a scene or embarrass his wife...........but for her to pretend she didn't notice? I don't buy it for a second. I would say the normal reaction for most women would be to tell her H about the man being so free with his hands. Most women would not feel comfortable about being around that couple again.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
IMHO the guy deserved to be decked. He disrespected you in your face and you called your wife out only without saying anything to him?
As for your wife, how does it look to her that someone would have the nerve to grope her and you keep quiet. How is that self respecting? How is that protective? Just because he is known? How does a woman find a man attractive that allows their friends to fondle her and not hear a peep from him?
I have found that we are more often angry at having shut up when we should have said something than from over reacting.
Stop thinking about reactions and other peoples feelings above your own. Speak up.
You are only calling her out because she is the easy option. Wouldnt it have been better to say after she doesnt recognize this action ... well next time he tries anything ill ....
When a man interacts with another guy's family he must be careful as the actions reflect his opinion / respect of the guy.
I get everyone's opinion of the sNo, not a train wreck, but a comedy. I do think he's doing everything he possible can (PA behavior) to sabotage her staying here or marrying her.
I think I'm going to make a triple batch of popcorn. We are all going to need it to get thru this show. ituation and can identify with all of the suggestions. The biggest thing for me about this is that I believe my W is lying about it for some reason. Most likely just to see me squirm. It shows I care about another man touching her and no doubt she is enjoying it. What she doesn't understand is that it's more about the disrespect from him towards us (the guys is supposed to be our friend), the disrespect my W did by not addressing it right there and then (but I understand she may not have know what to do) and now the distrust she is creating by saying she is unaware that it happened when I'm quite sure she was fully aware of it. I feel the same way, you would know if someone had their hand on your ass and patting it! Her response was all over the place "didn't notice he did it. Or if I did I forgot. I didn’t think anything of it…I forgot. I don’t remember that in particular". The statements she made are in quotes since I recorded the conversation. It was my first time I've ever done this but I was sure she would not give me a straight answer. And after when I told her what she said above, she denied saying it. Told her I wrote it down as she said it. But, I have not told her that I recorded the conversation. She will certainly turn the focus onto me recording the conversation than the issue at hand. I just wanted the recording so I could listen back and see if I was over reacting. I'm glad I did as I could hear her trying to come up with an explanation on the fly that contradicted each statement. I have my first one on one with the new MC tonight and will discuss this with her to get her take on it all and let her hear the recording if she likes. There is no reason to lie to me about it so if she is it really makes me wonder what the hell she is trying to do. The only thing we have done consistently until know (at least I thought) is at least be honest with each other. If the trust is gone it's going to make it that much more difficult for us to recover our R and M.
