For all HD out there

[NotATLDave]

I have to agree with Tim. It sounds like Dr. Harley has been smoking the stupid weed and has become LD himself.

CeMar,
You've been sounding pretty hopeless lately. But I'm not going to challenge the premise that there truly aren't any success stories without a motivated LD.

I hope I don't get flamed here but I still get the impression that the unmotivated spouse is not feeling any discord in the relationship despite all your efforts to remind her how messed up the marriage is. I'm really starting to think that a "shock and awe" campaign might be the way to do this. That to make things better, you might need to intentionally need to make things worse. It's a risky game but if you look at the divorcebusting success stories, there's tons of recovery from dramatic situations.

If an LD spouse is just giving lip-service to the idea of improving the R, then they need to be challenged with the thought that love is not unconditional. I think most of us have been too accommodating to our ULDW (unmotivated low-desire) spouse and have provided enough LL to keep them partially fueled. Why are we so scared to put the relationship on the line? Maybe it takes creating "pain parity" before we can create "pleasure parity". The more I read these posts, the more it sounds like there is NO answer from a mainstream author or therapist. Can you imagine the professional risk they would incur if they started telling people to "shake things up". I almost want to go into the divorce forums and post a question if anyone's relationship has improved because of separation or even an affair. The one thing I have to remember too is that everyone here is not satisfied with something. Otherwise they wouldn't be here.

Regarding your book references (forgive me for sounding like I'm attacking but we all do these things too)
Every therapist presents very "sound" and conservative advice. Just look at SSM and how many times she says how "different" people are and that there are no guarantees. It's good to read and get some new insights but the advice and exercising makes the recovery process clinical. The reality is that a therapist would be more likely to put themselves on the line than an author...but not by much.

Actually, I would like to see a scorecard from all therapists and authors. My breakthroughs came from talking with others in the forums. SSM helped me explain my feelings to W and provided some insights, but I see you quoting a lot of authors and possibly giving them too much credit and/or wanting to use their "credibility" to make a point to your W. Actually a lot of us do this and I was going down this path too until my W absolutely vetoed the "self-help" route. Thankfully, we have quickly discovered a different language than the ones advocated by these therapists. If you go to the book store and look at the "sex" books from people like Laura Corn, they all basically repeat the premise of SSM but then proposes more specific upbeat ideas.

Again, I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking but I think you and a lot of us need to open our minds to some ideas that might not be advocated by these authors.

- D