Ojap's Story

[Thornton]

Your pops is a wise man, Pajo.

[sandi2]

She tells me how sorry she is that she is hurting me, how she knows it will hurt our girls. She is having a crisis of 'faith' (which has been integral in our lives...both since childhood...and that matters even more b/c I am currently an associate pastor). She 'prayed' for someone like me growing up...but now resents me and gets angry when she sees me b/c she feels like I was making her 'conform'...not just religiously...but in other areas of personality.

This is important. Were you an associate pastor or in the ministry at the time she married you?

If you were M before you entered into the ministry, she may feel she didn't "sign up" for what people expect from a preacher's wife. If you were in the ministry before getting married, then she may feel too much strain is on her. She could be rebelling and not wanting to conform to all that you or the congregation expects. Feeling as though she is forced to live in a certain way could trigger a rebellion.

She spoke of not letting people in...how loving hurt too much...of how she is angry at me b/c she is having to take ant-depressants b/c 'what she feels is wrong'. How she could never live up to her a$$hole/alcoholic father's expectations, and now she is screwing 'us' up too...

To me, it sounds that she breaking under the pressure of never living up to expectations. She doesn't feel good enough for her father or you.

I think this possible A is a sign of rebellion, and seeing herself as not good enough for her father and now her H. She's angry about it b/c her father was an a$$hole/alcoholic who should not have put such high expectations on her, and she's angry at you for confining her in this glasshouse style of life for her to live.

Sometimes, people feel they have failed or aren't good enough to ever measure up. I think this is true where there is a lot of criticism. They will give up and decline morally/spiritually. If they can't be the model wife/daughter/Christian that is expected, then they will be the bad girl they were meant to be (at least in their mindset), where the expectations are very low and somehow takes pressure off of them.

Frankly, I see attending MC will do no good at this particular time. Her seeing a therapist for these deeper issues may be more helpful than seeing someone about the MR. Instead of the focus being on the M or you, a therapist could focus on just her issues, and get to the bottom of what's causing her depression. With all the drinking and medication, there seems to be something she's trying to block out.

[Ojap]

Thanks for the feedback Sandi....

It was an eventful weekend. I'm working hard to manage my expectations.

So...Thursday evening was the sex/big talk noted in earlier post. Friday was an easy day, where we chatted briefly during the evening, and ended up going to bed pretty early. Which leads us to our Saturday MC session.

Wife went first. She again noted all the positive changes I have made. Then went on to say that she really wasn't sure if she could keep be all in, because she is just 'hurt, tired, and has resentment'. Also...we spent some time discussing how she is helping a mutual friend fight cancer...been VERY difficult for her b/c of all the other emotional stuff we are wading through.

When I began to talk...I came to some pretty big revelations about myself and my role in the demise of our relationship to this point. I articulated them, and I'll do it briefly here.

2001: W and are I dating in undergrad. Committed to one another solely. She has a talk with me and tells me that another guy made a move on her, and that they kissed. She ended up having an anxiety attack, which prompted me to carry her to hospital. We pretty much never spoke of it again. (Maybe a quick, I'm sorry...it shouldn't have happened type thing)

2009: Married for 7 years. W is in grad school. I see a text exchange with her professor that I don't like...I wake her up in middle of night and confront her with it. We don't discuss it much after that...but it takes me a month or two before I'm 'over it'.

2014: Our current situation begins. I confront over text messages, she pulls away, etc. Multiple times over course of 18 months.

So...my realizations, based on some personal therapy I'm receiving, is that I NEVER fully addressed my trust issues with W, from way back in 2001!!! And...it set me on a course where I would try to keep an 'eye' on her or in her words 'control or manipulate' her. It was like a slow death. I didn't realize. I shared all this...W began to cry at my understanding. I saw her pain. It was liberating and painful at the same time.

Then...as our MC moved forward...I validated MANY different things over the past 4 weeks. She was receptive. I then spoke about my 2 triggers:

1: Cell Phone Secrecy. Her response was that her cell phone and her friendships at work were pretty much the only things in her life that our children or I didn't 'overlap'. That, and the fact that I have overreacted to so many text messages, etc. and she wants to avoid those type of controlling interactions. She gave an example and showed me a text from a co-worker that said 'You're amazing!" She said that I would have 'read into' that...but the truth was that she had went the extra mile for a patient of that particular co-worker and He was being appreciative.

2: Spending of money w/ out conversation: This was simple miscommunication. She contends that we had previously discussed this particular bill, and that it in know way was an effort to 'not talk' about spending money,etc.


-----------------Now...fast forward to Saturday afternoon. W asks to go to a few stores together. We cook for kids together. We watch basketball games together all afternoon.

-----------------Yesterday (Sunday) we take kids to lunch/shopping after church together. W admits that she wants to go to our church's Oyster Roast...but only b/c she would love Oysters (doesn't want to be around the people)...SO...I run by the store and pick a couple dozen up and come home fix them. When she sees what I've done...she hugs me. First unsolicited hug in months.


So....I don't know. I still freak out about the phone. I was in the bathroom...she had her phone charging...and a couple minutes later one of my girls comes to 'get the phone for mommy'. So...I have to work on my anxiety about that for sure. But otherwise...some very positive things. BUT...I guess I'm not supposed to believe them. Ugh....fun stuff.

[Ojap]

Sorry Sandi...shoudl have answered your question.

I was planning on be a pastor when we were dating/engaged, etc. That WAS one of the things she liked about me. But...as we grew/changed it didn't turn out the way she had planned, and our views/beliefs have evolved.

Your comment about expectations are spot on. Both the W and I would often say that we could never meet one another's expectations. MC said she was impressed w/ both our progress and that we both had self-esteem issues where we 'would never be good enough' for one another. And that fully understanding that was important to the healing process, etc.

Also...during MC and our discussion about Cell Phone and my anxiety, she was very clear to say, "I do not love anyone else, and I don't have any desire whatsover to love anyone again. It hurts too much."

Ok...I think that's it. Lol

[sandi2]

I was planning on be a pastor when we were dating/engaged, etc. That WAS one of the things she liked about me. But...as we grew/changed it didn't turn out the way she had planned, and our views/beliefs have evolved.

Could you explain what you mean about it not turning out the way she had planned? And would you expound on your beliefs evolving?

[Ojap]

Basically...the W grew up in a difficult home situation w/ parents. Her only real safe place was her local church. When we were married, we were both 'all-in' at our local church. Working with children and youth for a number of years.

Right around the time our twins were born things began to change. I was working full-time w/ the church and that tends to put a microscope on the entire family. People in the church want to 'know' your family. They want to be 'close'. They offered unsolicited opinions. My W really grew into her 'momma bear' self during this time. Our girls were premature, and struggled quite a bit...so she became very protective (rightly so)...especially at church. W did NOT appreciate the fact that so many people were 'weighing in'...and I didn't handle it well either. I would 'justify' their actions. Say it was sincere and they simply wanted to be a part of our lives. That was VERY wrong on my part. It felt like an invasion to her and I didn't protect. Those type of situations happened for a number of years.

Fast forward to 2011. We are in a different state. Wife is finally out of grad school and I am working for a new church...one we thought was 'less intrusive', and was closer aligned with our evolving theology (we grew up in very fundamentalist churches, and this one was a bit more centerist/liberal). However...9 months in, I was basically corned and told that b/c my wife wasn't 'paying her portion of tithes' that I would need to make some major adjustments. Apparently my job description had 'the minister will pay tithes on the total household income'. So...even though my W was supporting a single mom w/ a sick child on a regular basis...that church thought they knew better how she should give her money.

Needless to say...that's an attempt to control. I DID recognize that, and resigned the position.

We moved back to current location...and I worked outside of the church for 2+ years...but we began volunteering at 'old/original church' together. My father is the pastor of this church and planted it 20 years ago...so lots of 'ties' there. The church had grown, as had its approach and they were wanting to 'change...be more relevant'. So...we helped and I got offered a job. That was 2014. Been slowly going downhill since then.

Examples of our beliefs that have changed:

1. W and I are completely okay with alcohol consumption (being a 'drunkard' is bad...enjoying wine and beer...necessary! lol). Our church definitely is not.

2. Our church believes in some things that I think are possible...b/c it is in scripture...but we both believe that they are more emotionally driven, rather than supernatural (speaking in tongues, healing, etc.)

3. Our church believes homosexuality to be an 'incorrect' lifestyle. W and I have made way to many friendships with people of faith, who are gay, to subscribe to that belief system.

Those are just a few examples...Also...I am working hard to find employment outside of this church. There are REALLY good people there, including my family. But it is time to move on. Deciding to go back to work their in 2014 may have been the worst decision of my life. Even though W brought serious concerns...she still supported the decision b/c she didn't want to 'crush my dreams', etc.

Hope this answers your questions...

[Ojap]

Journaling:

So...after what I considered 3 or 4 really positive days...the W made sure to put things back in perspective last night.

Basically, I'm in front of TV in our room, I've got my laptop open and phone beside me...she walks to bed and says, "I want to say something, but I really don't want a big response or discussion about it. I just need to say it." She then proceeds to say the following:

"You know your concerns in MC about how secretive I am with my phone and laptop...I think it's funny b/c I never really had those in my life until a few years ago, but you have had your phone attached to your hip 24/7 for years. And do you know that I have, not once, asked you what you're doing, who your texting, etc.? It just seems very one-sided to me. I don't even think you realize how much it comes off as controlling and manipulative. I really am struggling with anger and resentment towards you. I can't keep this up forever. I am going to have to work on some sort of timeline...I guess that's my job. But I am trying...if only for our girls."

So...that sucked. I validated. Told her that I was beginning to understand my role in the downturn of our MR. I said I am working hard on letting go of my tendencies and to allow her to make her own decisions. I did give her an example of how difficult it is for me when she is so protective...and what happens in my mind...how I WANT to trust and believe and allow her freedom, but how my rational mind is FREAKING out because there MUST be something she doesn't want me to know about.

Alright...roller coaster ride is back on. Only real positive I can pull from that convo is that we actually had one...away from MC, and it didn't end in a blowout. We both offered our thoughts (well...I kept the majority of mine) and moved forward.

[Ojap]

Okay Admins...I need some help...b/c I'm an idiot.

My username is a variation of a name I use that my W (and for that matter others close to me) would know to 'search' for if she was interested in seeing if I was a part of something like this board, FB, et al.

I know...I know...that was a dumb move on my part. Not only that..I titled the thread by my username. Again...dumb move.

That being said...if I google my username and divorce. #1 hit on google. Ugh!!!

is there ANY way to change my username and my threads title so it doesn't cache that way???

If not...I've learned my lesson either way. Thanks!!!

[Cadet]

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I changed the title on this post.
What do you want the title to be?

[TimR]

Sorry to hijack your thread but my user name is my first name and last initial should I also change my display name??