Beginning of the End

[TimR]

Thanks Pajo, I am!

Ok so some serious sitch reflection and after I journal and explain could use some feed back about what I do next.

So prior to last weekend, I had no contact with W the few days prior to the weekend weigh in. That day she hung out with MIL who hates me. Prior to that she was fine but then blew up on me for not taking S right to weigh in and right home without texting her. It was a big blow up and she threatened about keeping me from him then.

This weekend... I had no contact with W the few days prior to the weekend. She then asked about the schedule and we had a big blow up where she again threatened to keep S away from me.

At both times the next day at the tournament W was fine. Our other blow ups were after catching her(I initiated that) or after she spent time with MIL. However, the best times we have had have been at tournaments or when she contacts me just about nothing, just to text.

Just to be clear her lists of leaving me have included, controlling, manipulative, lack of affection, lack of personal validation, neglectful, lack of intimacy, lack of love (from me to her), and me holding myself over her. This weekend was a new one and that was lack of communication.

I have previously said that she made the comment this weekend, "so if I came back tonight you would not have my rings." While this was in the context of her saying she wanted her rings back, is there more to it? I cannot begin to speculate about that.

Here is what I am thinking because I am trying to take baby steps. W has triggers going off that I cannot seem to anticipate. I am thinking, I know she is ready to go off when she spends time with MIL, so I need to try and avoid contact after knowing she has been with MIL. My personal coach and I have also determined anything relationship wise should not be broached. But the other common thing is when we have gone without contact. I am considering sending occasional texts reaching out to her which are about nothing. "wow my day has been a nightmare, how is yours going?"

Today a friend told me that she made a comment last weekend to his wife about how great we are getting along. She has told me that before too. So I am wandering maybe I should try and reach out. It is noted that going dark can actually hurt if you were neglectful during the M, which I believe am was.


Anyone have any thoughts about this? I do not want to get stuck in the pursuer/distancer dance but think since times where I was completely dark ended in bad confrontation when we did finally speak, whether I should experiment with occasional trivial contact?

[TimR]

This evening is a little harder than normal. I just don't know why but for some reason I just feel like a sinking ship. Nothing in particular. Maybe just really missing W. After seeing and smelling her Sunday I just did not want to leave go. Was going to work out tonight but apparently over did it last week as my back is killing me. Was still planning to do it but tweaked it worse after showing a move at practice. Maybe tomorrow will be better.

[Uphill]

I'm not an expert but I'll stop in and tell you that these down times do get shorter and less painful. A year ago, I wouldn't be able to see a picture without it ruining my day. Now it takes much more. Yes I've been in a funk these past few days, but it's my own fault for letting my expectations get too high and getting my hopes up too soon.

I'm not up to date on your whole sitch so I won't try to quite you at this point. I'll try to catch up a little tomorrow and see if I have any advise (I feel my advise is better than my personal actions). For now, grab a snickers. It's a long ride buddy.

[Uphill]

Guide*

[broke]

Tim,

That is a very interesting question that you have proposed: do you detach or check in with occasional texts (because you think detaching triggers emotional outbursts)? Being newer to DB'ing texting seems to go against what is recommended, but they also say to try to do opposite of what you would normally do. So, maybe it is worth a try and gauge your progress with that?

Your WAS seems similar to mine in that after he has a "meltdown", he usually can calm down, get over it and act like everything is normal again. I was pretty distant in our M, too (putting the kids before H and M), so I am interested to hear what others have to say about your proposal. I do feel like my H is responding to me not being angry, but I worry that he is just responding because he wants to get over his guilt and move straight to being friends. It is definitely a fine line to walk. I am anxious to see what others say and, if you try it, see what results you get.

I am sorry you are feeling down tonight. I do understand how some interaction pulls you right back in. I was that way while the H was in Florida. NC for 4 days was tough! I am so proud of the DB'ers that can do it for extended times. Hopefully, you can build on the positive car ride from yesterday!

[TimR]

Thanks Broke. Please correct me if I am wrong but the NC is going dark but detaching is finding a way to not emotionally respond to the WAS's actions and words. Right? If I am right the writings talk about going dark may not be a good strategy if you were distant any neglectful during the marriage.

The reason I bring this matter of semantics up was the idea dawned on me while rereading the going dark thread. I was trying to figure out what triggers her so I could hopefully avoid pushing those buttons. I was thinking of going almost lights out dark and how to manage with S. I was thinking of doing one text a week or every other week. So while reading it and when I got to the warning of if you were neglectful, I thought about how the last months I would just sit quietly and try and think of something to say, anything that would make us better again or even start the conversation. Then I thought of her telling me one of the reasons she knew I did not love her was that I always neglected her. So I questioned, am I doing more of the same and my 180 is actually a 360.

I cannot talk about anything of the relationship and I cannot give the compliments that I would like to, but maybe little conversation starts. Nothing crossing the line of pursuit but remaining friendly. I just don't know about it because it feels like pursuit but it is a 180 from what I am doing now.

Maybe I need to schedule a coaching session and see what she thinks too???

[Sparkls]

Were you always the one to bring up relationship concerns before DDay? Did you always have the last word? Did you talk everything to death?

I did all of these and that's why I went dark. Cause as much as I want to talk to H about everything (after all, not talking got us here, right?!), my talking isn't the problem. It's him not talking. By going dark, I'm giving him head space. Something I never really did before . I always had to talk everything out.
Did I make the right decision? No clue. Haven't heard from him in 2 weeks and he's still in his A but when I was talking to him we went from a good convo (talking about how much he wanted to come to my graduation) to I don't love you and never did in 24 hours so clearly talking wasn't helping either.

[broke]

Hmmmm....that is even more interesting. I absolutely think if I went dark with my H it would be over. There's not much hope now, but I can guarantee you he'd be done if there was no interaction. At the beginning of this, he kept telling me he just "wanted to be loved". (I put kids before my M and H). So, now that you've made it more clear about detaching vs going dark, I'm even more curious. I think a coach is a great idea. I'll reread that section tomorrow too. I'm really intrigued now because they do seem to be slightly different strategies. You may be onto something. Isn't it amazing how much you can learn about yourself through this process?!

[TimR]

I agree broke. Maybe its my obsessive compulsive nature but my sitch is always on my mind. I keep thinking and rethinking what did I wrong. How did it get this bad and how didn't I see it coming until its too late. She accused me of not loving her. And I keep thinking if you did not think I loved you then, if I gave off the wrong vibes, how cant she see how much I love her now. For the love of god I caught her cheating and I am still here for her. If that is not complete unconditional love, what is?

I know believe none of what they say but when she says how she felt abandoned and alone there must be something behind it. I look back at my actions and I think me being physically present but quiet is a sign of neglect. I neglected my W and my M which despite the other reasons, I think is what ruined my M. So I am thinking going dark is more of the same for me. I think then the issue is doing it without pursuing it or as Sandi says not being the gay guy friend.

[Thornton]

I don't think you are solely responsible for the breakdown, Tim.

Clearly she didn't communicate some things, right?

It's so easy to blame ourselves and get consumed with guilt. I do that to myself too. But logically, we can't take 100% responsibility for all the blame.

Oh,I saw on someone elses thread what your MIL posted about you.. WTF!!!!

That is just way over the top. Has she always been that way?

Is W codependent with her mother? Mine sure as hell is.

They are like sisters and her mother thinks I stole W from her. I'm sure she's in hog heaven right having W all to herself...