Ojap's Story

[TimR]

It is very tough P. It is also a roller coaster ride. While today is a good for me, tomorrow could be complete opposite.

This is the worse pain I have ever known or would want to and like I said today is a good day. Sadly I know it will get worse before it ever gets better, if it ever gets better. And for all that pain what would my prize be but to get my M back or enter a new M.

While I know I will be changed in either of those events, for the better or worse?? Some parts I believe I would be better, I will not repeat the past mistakes and would be able to communicate. However, some parts may be worse; how will I ever be able to trust WW again? How could I trust anyone again? Will I have jealousy issues?

That is what my WW has left me with and why I have so much work to do on me.

[Cadet]

I accused the wife of the same, guys. Said she wasn't trying at all b/c we had been in MC for a few months and things were still going downhill.

Her reply: "How can I not be trying?! I don't have a desire to be here (with you), but I am staying! I am on 3 medications to help me not 'feel'! (her anti-depressants). How can you say I'm not trying?!!" I'm the one who is 'wrong', so I need all the help! Me! I'm the problem...and I'm trying! I don't want to feel the way I do, but I can't help it. It is how I feel and I shouldn't feel bad about that!"

What she said has some truth to it.
She can not FEEL anything and she needs to blame that on someone.
Cause it can not possibly be her fault.
(and in a way it is not her fault)
So she picks the closest person to herself to blame - YOU!

In reality the depression and hormones are causing this,
so it is not her fault or YOUR fault.
She must decide that she wants to get better.
You can not talk her into it.
Neither can a counselor.

This is why "Letting GO" is the best path.
I know it is hard however it is the only path.

[Ojap]

Letting GO. Gonna start singing Disney Movie songs when I get anxious.

Don't judge me...I've got 3 little princess. lol

Thanks SO much guys. I feel ya Tim. LONG road ahead. But by G0D....we can and we will do it. For ourselves, our kids, our families.

[TxHubby]

Also...I will say that being certain of the EA/PA would probably prompt one major change.

I think I would no longer go along with our current situation as is. We would need immediate intervention in MC to start making headway. If the EA/PA didn't end immediately....I would make sure that we separate and put up boundaries to protect myself and my girls.

Those are the reasons I have for wanting to 'know'. It wouldn't change my 180 or GAL....but would change parts of how I am working on our MR.

Good plan. You can't be blind. You have to know what you're dealing with or you don't have a chance.

[Ojap]

Okay guys...I need some feedback. Had good session with my therapist today. He helped me identify my big anxiety triggers and gave me some exercises. Also...I asked if I should share some of my concerns with W at MC this Saturday. He recommended I contact MC and ask opinion...I did...and she feels it is very appropriate given our situation.

That being said...I've made some 'notes' for myself. I'll post them below. Some may not make a lot of sense from the outside...so I'll try to explain in parenthesis.

-------------------

First Off:
-You were amazing for (censored) and her family. I know you must have been completely burned out (12 days straight work + 2 days of traveling). Awesome job! (Wife sat Sun-Tues nights w/ young mother with cancer so the dad could see their kids)

Personal Stuff:
Your Personal Goals to be INDEPENDENT and to ASSERT what is best for you:
Awesome that you…
-Tried the Zoomba class @ the gym
-Go to the Drug Rep dinners (business but also a great social outlet)
-Personal pampering stuff (nails, etc.)
-Went out to lunch last Friday during work (this is something she has never really done, work is intense)
I’ve made some personal adjustments that have helped me, as well:
-Eating healthier
-Exercising
-Hung out w/ buddy, had personal time, etc.
-Been seeing a Therapist.

Relationship Stuff:
Positive actions I want to acknowledge:
-You ‘quasi-asked’ if I wanted to walk/run w/ you.
-You asked my input on your attendance to your work friend’s SuperBowl Party
-You opened up to me about how you were feeling in a phone conversation following D9's meeting last Thursday. (This was a VERY difficult convo for me...but I validated and kept up my DBing)

I hope I have made some positive strides that you recognize as well…

Concerns I have:
-I am very much aware that I contributed to some of these issues. I am culpable.
-I am doing my best to NOT attack, but to share my perspective and articulate what I have learned in my personal time and w/ my Therapist.

-Two main topics:
1. Although I understand that I have contributed to this…the intense secrecy with which you protect your cell phone (especially) and your laptop is alarming for me.
-I can understand wanting to ‘avoid’ misunderstanding on my part that lead to arguments. (when/if I see a message that I take out of context)
-I can only see a couple of viable options for the protection:
A - Wanting to ‘avoid’ misunderstanding on my part that lead to arguments.
B - There really is something to hide.
-The level of protection you have applied feels dangerous to our chances. In my mind, it does not foster trust. I can honestly say that there is nothing in any of my devices that I would not be ‘okay’ with you seeing/reading.

2. Bring your attention to our discussion about our taxes and my CPAP bill
-I sent a text, we discussed the options, did the work that evening, and made a joint decision. Awesome.
-A few days later I saw that you paid a significant medical bill off to (censored).
-Paying the bill=Awesome. Not talking at all to me about it=NOT Awesome

-Theses two main issues feel like they are marching YOU further away from US, not closer to US.
-From my perspective they cause a HIGH amount of anxiety, stress, and distrust. It will be very difficult for me to move forward if we can’t RENEGOTIATE a compromise that we are both comfortable with in these two critical areas of trust.

-----------------------

Alright guys...let it rip.

[TimR]

I think the thing I would stress the most would be the transparency. That is a huge issue which must be resolved in order to regain trust. Reread Sandi's posts about reconciling too quickly.

[Ojap]

Thx Tim,

Agree...transparency. I'm not sure how to handle the 'reconcile to quickly' stuff.

Reality is that we are living in the same house, using same finances, and living differnent lives, with exception of our girls...

However...she verbalizes (I know not to trust this) that she is 'IN', and she willingly goes to MC every few weeks. So...part of me wants out of the limbo so I will start touching on the real issues.

May not be the right approach. Probably not, since it is what I want. lol

It wouldn't be DBing to do some that wasn't counterintuitive. haha

[TimR]

Not trying to rain on you picnic. I hope she is sincere. We need a win!! Just saying IMO to be careful and make sure its on your terms. Sandi conditions you should consider. Be patient and don't push.

Regardless, the fact that you are in the same house definitely helps with DBing. I wish you the best of luck brother!

[Ojap]

Okay...some big stuff happened last night (at least for me)...and it's making me re-think my approach at counseling.

So...W comes home and we have an amiable conversation, which leads to a good conversation where we are both laughing about some things our daughters have done, how much they're growing, how we're not cool, etc.

We go our separate ways for a couple of hours (usual), kids are asleep, we are both watching TV in separate rooms. Bottom line...after a few exchanges, she offers me glass of wine, and basically requests sex.

Sidenote: (Since our issues began in earnest, we have averaged sex once/month, and ONLY when we are two glasses of wine deep)

At any rate...it happens. She wants to make sure that its just 'sex', no big emotional attachment thing...but she can tell its more for me (I think).

Bottom line to all of this...'after'...she is a bit tipsy and begins talking. And I begin to realize how deep her depression really is. She tells me how sorry she is that she is hurting me, how she knows it will hurt our girls. She is having a crisis of 'faith' (which has been integral in our lives...both since childhood...and that matters even more b/c I am currently an associate pastor). She 'prayed' for someone like me growing up...but now resents me and gets angry when she sees me b/c she feels like I was making her 'conform'...not just religiously...but in other areas of personality.

She spoke of not letting people in...how loving hurt too much...of how she is angry at me b/c she is having to take ant-depressants b/c 'what she feels is wrong'. How she could never live up to her a$$hole/alcoholic father's expectations, and now she is screwing 'us' up too...

It made me rethink a lot of my paranoia and anxiety about her phone concealment, and her efforts to have some independence and assert herself. It was heartbreaking...she was begging me to 'let her go'. She said she 'would stay...but she wasn't sure how to love me like a husband again'. She wept after saying that...and said...'I don't want to feel that way...but I do. I'm so sorry. You deserve better than me. You deserve to be happy and loved.' 'I'm just done. I'm so tired. Please just let me go, so I can figure out what is wrong with me, and who I am."

I validated and tucked her in to bed. It was terrible. Now...I feel a bit lost. What am I looking at here, guys???

[Thornton]

Pajo,

It definately sounds like depression to me.

My W has depression as well. Depression makes it hard to love ANYTHING and ANYONE.

There's absolutely nothing you can do to fix her.

BUT, you can validate her better than anyone else.

So is she looking for you to give her the green light to leave? To relieve her guilt?