One other very important question: My brother-in-law just called me and left a voicemail message. He will be in our town this weekend and wanted to stop and see his nephews (i.e. my kids). What in the heck do I do in this situation? Before my H was such a jerk, I would've been happy to have him over to see the boys. Do I just go ahead and let him come to see them and not talk at all about the D and his idiot brother? Or, do I just say it is not a good time....
This is about uncle and nephews. Stick to uncles and nephews.
Boundary
If BIL talks about WH and I and R then I will say "can we make this about uncles and nephews please. The boys love having a doting uncle to play with". And if he persists then "I am more comfortable with staying away from talks about my R". Called fogging.
If it truly isn't a good time say so and suggest an alternate. Why deprived the boys of reasonable quality adult male role model?
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thank you, Vanilla. I made my changes in red. You really are a very generous and special person to spend so much time on my sitch. I am very grateful and feel much more prepared due to all the kindness from the people on this board.
-------------------------------------------------------- OK let's now form these up to boundary statements that you can enforce and keep to.
Otherwise if you are in a difficult position you will be cornered.
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conversations (very rare - usually communicate through text or email):
If WH says that he wants to talk to me about important issues regarding the children or the house/belongings, then I will suggest that we can schedule a time to talk by phone or in person. If WH persists then I will repeat and offer him a time slot. Closing the conversation with please confirm and suggest an alternative remember your action not we and you need enforcement.
If WH wants to talk about the divorce, then I will direct him to speak with our attorneys if he persists then I will end the conversation. Once again enforcing
If WH wants to discuss anything about our R, I will attempt to validate any of his feelings and concerns and direct the conversation to a different topic. If he persists, I will say that I am not going to discuss our R while you are having an active affair then this is inappropriate. If you are prepared to cease contact with OW then we can discuss.
I really like this last one
Meetings:
If WH wants to have a meeting, I will limit it to very important, time-sensitive issues about the kids. I will be civil, end the meeting before he does and will not engage in small talk about other items. excellent boundary
Specific boundaries with regards to the kids:
1. handovers: we both drop off the kids at the front or back door. No conversations or entry into each others' homes; just a wave if we see each other.
Remember your behaviour, your boundary. What happens if your WH enters without being invited?
Try this When WH drops the kids off at the door then my body language indicates that I just want a drop off, or if I am dropping off I move hastily away, I do not invite WH in to my home or accept invites into his. If WH behaves differently I move away and say 'please can we discuss X in private time' and I move away.
Hmmmm…this one is tricky because I don’t want to get into argument in front of the children. Is it okay to say “I think it is best that we stick to dropping off the kids at the door”.
------------------------------- 2. birthdays for kids: we had family dinner on S15 birthday. Was horrible interaction. Will not be an issue until May but will inform H that we will do separate birthday celebrations with the boys.
ok try writing the boundary on this
-3. family events: The H and I will not attend family events with in-laws. (My family hates H right now; his family misses me, but I have blocked them on facebook and informed them that we won't be in contact until the D is final)
Please can you draft this boundary. Hint: Drop the H and I. Make this about you and not H. If you want a boundary on in laws then a second boundary is needed. Drop the mind reading on your family too. You are better than that, he is still your boys' father.
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4. School events/kids activities: I have maintained my distance from H. I sit or stand away from him. I will be civil and abrupt if I have to interact. I will smile, act light and breezy. If WH approaches then I will move away?(thanks, Thornton)
5. Teacher conferences: coming up soon in March. Will arrive early and sit outside the classroom, so don't have to interact with H. Will direct all conversation to teacher. While walking out, be civil and abrupt.
Boundary statements please. Positive behaviour from you and enforcement. Use the present tense.
--------------------------- Couple questions:
1. what to do about packing for kids for vacations with their dad? In the past, I have let him come in the house and assist them so they don't forget anything (and I am not his "assistant" anymore for him to ask me to do his chores). My proposal is to continue to have him pack with them and make sure that I will be out of the house during those times.
Decide what is best for your kids and work from that. The best option for the kids is that they pack and I confirm that they have what they need. That also keeps WH out of the house.
OK boundary statement with enforcement such as
When the children are going away with WH then they are packed and ready for collection at the door. If WH persists then I state the children have all they need and here are the bags. Have a great time" and I walk them to the car.
2. S15 enters golf tournaments and the parents walk and watch. My proposal is I maintain my distance from H and walk with other parents or by myself. This may be tough because the H really seems to want to be my friend. Should I tell him something about us not walking together? Or, just be civil and abrupt and move away when it is reasonable to do so?
Which of these is right for you? If one doesn't work can you do the other? What would be the enforcement if you said don't walk together and WH wanted to be 'friends' ?
OK so how about
when I am out walking and WH wants to join me and I want my personal time then I say "WH I want to watch our son play golf and am enjoying my own thoughts. If he persists I walk away with a jaunty air whistling"
Good point. First, I will be civil, smile and move away from him when it is convenient. If WH doesn’t get the hint, I will tell him that I would prefer to walk by myself or with others.
---------------------------------------- So, in the last 3-4 weeks, I did a 180 and let go of my anger about the PA to be civil co-parents. I made a couple mistakes encouraging this "friendship" with my H during that time:
------ went to his parents' 50th wedding anniversary party (his parents cried they were so happy to see me and both his brothers said that no matter what I was still their "sister"). Since then, I have had no contact and gently told them I was blocking them from facebook until the D was final. In addition, I won't be going to any more family events.
What was your mistake in this exactly? Accepting his invitation to his parent’s anniversary party allowed WH to think he and I could still be friends after our divorce. His family would like me to remain as their daughter-in-law and sister but that is not realistic, especially given his OW. I sent WH the wrong message that I will attend family events with him as friends. It also may have given our children “false hope” about reconciliation.
How about: When I am invited to a family occasion then I will carefully consider the implication of attending if WH is in attendance. If it is appropriate then I may attend and I will be clear that I am independent of WH.
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So boundary statements for the next two
-your action not we or WH. -positive -enforcement action that is under your control
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I let S12 invite my H over for the first half of the Super Bowl and we watched it as a family. No more family events while PA going on.
Can you put this as a boundary statement?
We will not be doing activities as a family while WH is engaged in a PA. It sends the wrong message to the children and I do not want to be friends with WH.
Try this instead:
When WH suggests doing family activities I politely decline in private advising WH that I will cooperate with him on coparenting and whilst he has an R with OW, family activities which include both of us are usually out of bounds and I do not suggest such activities. if. WH persists I politely decline and stay away.
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On Sunday, we had a family lunch to discuss a couple important kid issues that were time sensitive. Next time, an email or phone call will do.
This one is very easy to do as a boundary! When WH wants a family meal to discuss important kid issues then I will schedule a phone call or conversation to discuss any critical issues related to the children. If he persists then I will say I no longer wish to discuss these matters in front of the children.
------------------------------------------- I cannot tell you all how much I appreciate all the feedback, personal stories and generous advice. This "friend zone" issue has been weighing on me heavily. I wasn't sure what to do - I now know that I am the friendly yet not so friendly neighbor. I know most of my boundaries (thanks V!) and will stick with them.
One last question: The H has said in the past that the A is over because the OW is working on her M with her husband. I don't necessarily believe him. Also, he still insists that we are getting divorced. Do I stick with same boundaries if I find out that the A is actually over?
Yes very much so, your boundaries may include apologies, transparency and a letter to OW from WH terminating their R officially. You adapt slowly to the change.
Thank you, thank you!
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Welcome and let's get these completely sorted and written in your words. I am pleased if you amend, these are your boundaries and I would like you to have the process clear. This is the way I write my boundaries, others may use different techniques.
You are doing well, I think if you knew how badly I drafted the few boundaries I had when I first did mine then you would understand how well!
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Lol - I will definitely call and invite him over to see the boys. Fortunately, my in-laws all think my H is crazy already for leaving me. My only concern was looking too friendly to the H or not being strong enough to avoid R talk with my BIL. As long as I have a strong boundary set up ahead of time, I think I will be fine.
Hope you had a good day yesterday and continued to GAL!
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
Vanilla - patience really is a virtue! Thank you for being so patient with me. I cleaned up all of our posts and attempted to put all my boundary statements into I or WH statements that were positive and included enforcement performed by me. I really appreciate your time and generosity - I know this will help my interactions in the future. For example, I now feel much more prepared to have my BIL over to see the kids this weekend. I panicked when I got his voicemail because I would always welcome him in the past but I don't want to get dragged into conversations about my M or R. Now, I won't feel cornered! Thank you so very much!
Texts and emails:
When WH texts me, then I will respond immediately if emergency regarding children and if the matter proves to be trivial then I will take no action.
If WH texts me about a trivial issue then I will respond when convenient for me.
If WH texts me regarding our R then I will not respond. If he persists, then I will advise that I do not respond by texts to those communications.
If WH texts about matters regarding our D or finances, then I will refer him to my L. If he persists, then I will advise that I refer these matters to my L and will send him my Ls telephone number.
conversations (very rare - usually communicate through text or email):
If WH says that he wants to talk to me about important issues regarding the children or the house/belongings, then I will suggest that a time slot to talk by phone or in person. If WH persists then I will close the conversation with please confirm and suggest an alternative.
If WH wants to talk about the divorce, then I will direct him to speak with our attorneys. If he persists, then I will end the conversation.
If WH wants to discuss anything about our R, I will attempt to validate any of his feelings and concerns and direct the conversation to a different topic. If he persists, I will say that I am not going to discuss our R while you are having an active affair then this is inappropriate. If you are prepared to cease contact with OW then we can discuss.
Meetings:
If WH wants to have a meeting, I will limit it to very important, time-sensitive issues about the kids. I will be civil, end the meeting before he does and will not engage in small talk about other items.
Specific boundaries with regards to the kids:
1. Handovers When WH drops the kids off at the door, then my body language indicates that I just want a drop off. If I am dropping off the kids at his house, I move hastily away. I do not invite WH in to my home or accept invites into his. If WH behaves differently, I move away and say 'please can we discuss X in private time' and I move away.
2. birthdays for kids: When one of the kids is celebrating a birthday, I will suggest time slots for H and I to each have time to spend with the boys. If WH suggests a family outing, I will politely decline and close the conversation with please confirm and suggest an alternative.
3. Extended family events:
I will not invite H to attend any family events with my extended family. If WH invites me to a family occasion, then I will carefully consider the implication of attending if WH is in attendance. If it is appropriate then I may attend and I will be clear that I am independent of WH.
4. Our family of four events:
When WH suggests doing family activities, I politely decline in private and advise WH that I will cooperate with him on co-parenting, and whilst he has an R with OW, family activities which include both of us are usually out of bounds and I do not suggest such activities. If WH persists, I politely decline and stay away.
5. School events/kids activities: I will maintain my distance from H. I sit or stand away from him. If I have to interact, I will be civil, abrupt, smile, be light and breezy. If WH approaches me, then I will move away.
6. Teacher conferences: coming up soon in March. Will arrive early and sit outside the classroom, so don't have to interact with H. Will direct all conversation to teacher. While walking out, be civil and abrupt.
While waiting for a conference to begin, I will be civil and only discuss the children. I will steer all conversations to be centered on the children, teacher and school. I will be patient and let WH ask questions and make comments without interrupting. If WH monopolizes the conference, I will politely ask to have some time after he finishes or schedule my own time with the teacher. After the conference is complete, I will be civil and abrupt, light and breezy on the way out of school. If WH follows me, persists in other conversations, I will walk away and say I have an appointment.
7. Packing for vacations with their dad:
When the children are going away with WH, then they are packed and ready for collection at the door. If WH persists, then I state the children have all they need and here are the bags. I walk them to the car and say “have a great time”.
8. golf tournaments:
When I am out walking to watch golf and WH wants to join me and I want my personal time, then I say "WH I want to watch our son play golf and am enjoying my own thoughts”. If he persists. I walk away with a jaunty air whistling.
You are doing well, I think if you knew how badly I drafted the few boundaries I had when I first did mine then you would understand how well!
Ha! I don't know - I feel like I am still not completely there, so I am grateful for the encouragement!. I do know that it was such a good exercise to formulate how I would respond in different situations. I feel more prepared to respond appropriately with less emotion (especially anger)!
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
Broke, we literally have so many similarities...your BIL is coming out of the woodwork too lol. Yes, it will be very difficult to not talk about the R but try to remember what Thornton said about giving you a chance to showcase the new and improved broke. I'm really trying to stick with this but sometimes in moments of weakness, I shrink back.
"Be messy and complicated and afraid and show up anyways."
Just checking in....not much new to report. H has been in Florida since Wednesday, so NC. I responded to my BIL and the kids and I are meeting him tonight for dinner at a restaurant. I feel like I have a plan in case he tries to discuss the M in any way. I also felt like meeting him at a restaurant would give him less opportunity to ask questions about what is happening (especially in front of the kids)....hoping it is uneventful.
Last night was a bit rough...miss sharing my day with someone and hearing about someone else's day. The friendship my H says never existed is probably the thing I miss most right now. I am proud of myself that I didn't reach out to my H when I was missing him. I feel like I have been db'ing with detaching and doing my 180's for 3 solid weeks now. The only hiccup was being too much of a "friend" to him and I think having no contact for 4 days will assist me with that including the boundaries I wrote out with Vanilla.
Making myself GAL today so I don't get into another funk. Lunch with friends, golf lesson in an hour, church, and, finally, dinner with the BIL. Fingers crossed the dinner goes okay.
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
