Ojap's Story

[Thornton]

If there's OM, marriage therapy will not work. Period.

You will notice things not getting better and your W not doing her homework and being engaged in therapy.

[sandi2]

So...are all these EA/PA red flags also red flags for clinical depression and the loneliness she is struggling with?

I am no authority on it. From what I have read, I would say the W does not have to be depressed or feeling lonely.

IMO, she has given you just cause to feel you can't fully trust her. I also noticed how she twist and reverses it to be about her not being able to trust you. That is very, very common for a wayward wife. She will make you feel, or make it appear that you have violated her privacy and that now she can no longer trust you with anything. She plays down the fact she has inappropriate and unexplained text messages with other men....and she blows up how you are untrustworthy. She can make you feel very guilty and you find yourself trying to prove that you can be trusted. Pretty much out of kelter, don't you think? Any spouse should be able to pick up the phone of the other spouse and look at it at any time, without being rebuked for breaking their privacy.

Whenever a wayward wife is confronted about any type of an affair.....the first thing she will do is deny it. Then, she will begin turning and twisting facts and/or giving some reason to allow excuses for her inappropriate behavior. Somehow, the LBS feels guilty for ever questioning the wayward.

Stay balanced and remember who is the one pushing the boundaries and the one who isn't.

[Cadet]

So...are all these EA/PA red flags also red flags for clinical depression and the loneliness she is struggling with?

I am no authority on it. From what I have read, I would say the W does not have to be depressed or feeling lonely.

I think depression can present itself in different ways.
So you may think it is not depression when in fact it is.
It could present as manic-depressive,
how do you really know what is going on inside someones head?

She is struggling with something and the odds are that it is not something YOU caused.

Dont try to FIX something you did not break.

[Ojap]

Thx Thornton, Sandi, Cadet....

Hmmm...so MC has not 'worked'. Matter of fact...I stated about a month ago that we were both further along the road to separation than when we started.

The only thing that has generated positive results is my DBing (about a month now). I no longer have a bad attitude about situation by moping or being depressed in front of her. I do not bring up R talk, ever. I do not question where she is, or who she goes with. I do not say anything about her phone, etc. I have stopped snooping.

In last two weeks she has been the text initiator, quasi offered for us to walk/run together vs. separate on one occasion. No talking...but did it together. Asked my opinion/thoughts about her going to a Super Bowl party (work related) .

Sandi: I agree w/ your comment about spouses having access to phones, etc. Is it a widely held belief that this transparency is a 'norm'? My wife has always had 'privacy' issues. Early in our marriage it was an issue b/c I would talk about our finances, her work or school stuff, to my family (and sometimes my best friend) and it would infuriate her. Her family was extremely private about that kind of stuff and she says it makes her feel that I am messing with her security.

[DadsCB]

Pajo,

I am so sorry to hear about your sitch! It's similar to mine but my wife doesn't think she is depressed and won't even consider getting help for it (says she is finally awake). Many of the things your wife said are the same as mine and many others but that doesn't make it any easier to hear. Sometime I wonder if there is a script they all get when starting an EA/PA.

Stay strong, work on you 180's and GAL. I will keep you in my thoughts!

[Ojap]

Thanks for stopping by DadsCB....

It really stinks, doesn't it?! I'll read up on your sitch. I haven't confirmed an EA/PA...but my gut keeps telling me its there....I really can't shake it.

Appreciate it the kind words!

[Ojap]

Also...besides my 'transparency' question, it being the 'norm'...

Are there reasons, other than an EA/PA, that my W would be taking the actions she is taking? Everything people are posting is basically chalking up her symptoms as EA/PA...

Could it be, as she says, she is just 'so tired' of the fighting. That we are 'so different'. That she wants to avoid me getting anxious over inconsequential stuff. And that I was/am controlling and she is trying to develop independance?

[Thornton]

I think that's possible. I think that's what my WAW did. I have no evidence of OM. No secrecy with her phone, nothing out of the norm.

But what I did notice was when we would make some headway in therapy, she would literally pick a fight with me over something silly. This would create distance again in the R. This was a pattern for about 2 months every week until the bomb.

She then blamed me for everything.

[Ojap]

Okay...I can see how that would transpire.

Will say that I saw 3 or 4 really positive reactions to my DBing over the course of two weeks....then she called me after a joint meeting we had regarding D9 at school. I could tell she wanted to talk....she basically said:

"You're doing so great. Thank you for your effort. {gets teary} but I still feel like I'm walking around on eggshells. 'Trapped' isn't a good word...but I feel like I have completely 'cut you off'. I still want separation. I feel like I am trying, but trying for the wrong reasons...for the kids, because I am supposed to....not because it is how I feel and what I want. It's like I'm living a lie"

So...I was dying inside...but I validated. Asked her if there were any 'action steps' associated with how she was feeling. That's when she said she still wants to separate, but "I don't know if/how to really do that. To separate from what?"

I will watch our trend and see how it develops. Thx again for the input

[TimR]

That is a great question. But ask yourself would it change your sitch one way or the other. Or... would it just keep you speculating what is the cause? Maybe tomorrow you will know the real reason or maybe you will never know. You gotta work on you because that is all you have control over. Much MUCH easier said than done... I cannot tell you how I constantly speculate what W is doing this exact moment. It is over with OM? If so why hasn't she come back? Has it started back up with OM? Is there a different OM? I drop S off and she is not home? Where is she? Who is she texting? Why hasn't she texted me back? Why is she angry when she just seemed to be in a good mood? How did we get here? What did she mean by that? Why did she choose to word it that way? etc.

Here is where that gets me. Nightmares, anxiety, depression, headaches, not working how I should, anger, tears, etc. I understand when I tell you to work on yourself and detach from her, it is much easier said than done. But it is what you need to do. Otherwise we become the greatest reason for our W to walk away!