Drop the Rope - Part VI

[roist]

Me back to pester you more on your situation!NNo I am just curious about some stuff. Feel free to ignore but I am asking to get a fuller understanding of where things are now.

1. Where are ye two with regards to wedding rings?

2. Is W still an intensive texter/messager?

3. A few months back V and anacaire offered help/insight into your situation.Did you follow up with them? If so did it help?


I have another question but that is enough for now

[Zephyr]

Good Afternoon all! good week so Far...busy, but good.
Roiste, you can always ask, right?

1. Where am I with regard to wedding rings (we bought simple bands of platinum and yellow gold when we got married, nothing fancy). I have almost always worn my ring. I think there were a few weeks where It was just 'too heavy' and I forgot to put it back on after going swimming. but for the MOST part it has been worn, maybe there was a couple of times I took it off. I don't remember anything specifically.

My wife took hers off almost 5 years ago because 'it didn't fit'. At the time I was a dope and believed her (not that it matters in either event). anyway, three years ago we went and made a new ring out of her engagement ring. it is very pretty and has the original stone I bought on valentine’s day in 1997, the day we got engaged. she wears that new ring on the correct finger most of the time. she doesn't wear it to the gym or if we go fishing or whatever, but I believe that is fairly common from what I see at the gym. she also wears her claddagh ring the correct way when she wears the new and improved wedding band.
does that have a significance, maybe it still does, at this point though it is beyond worrying about.

2. my wife is still a big facebooker and messager. a significant amount of time she mentions who she is messaging. I catch a peek or two here and there and have not seen anything that would set me off. I have actually taken to messaging her more. she sent me almost 20 texts this AM for nonsense fun things, a few family issues...but more times than not it is for fun (some days is more, much much more, others way less). really it is a function of how busy she is, maybe she misses me more those days, IDK.

Is this a big deal. This is debatable. I do enjoy hearing from her during the day. I will call her at lunch to say hi. she does the same. it is not every day, but a little 'thinking of you' from now and again is nice to get. so I really don't mind calling to say hi, either. She wants to communicate. when we are home, away, whatever...always has been. for a long time i shut it down, too busy at work. i didn't have texting on old phone. i didn't what to talk when i got home. all that crap. i know better now that is one of her needs and either i can fill it or someone else can.

I would say that overall the amount of texting with her sister, friends, work colleagues, etc. is down. she leaves the phone lying around waaaay more than even 6 months ago, even leaves it sometimes when she goes to the gym together (when I have my phone). anyway...positive/negative, not sure. I am not reading into that too much...I know it will drive me nuts if I did...don't have far to go on that one

3. Yes, the insight from Ancaire and V were super helpful. I know that Judy has had an absolute ton of stuff on her plate the last bunches of weeks so I have left that lie.

The info from V, I have really taken to heart. That woman is an absolute godsend! even stuff from others posts that I read form her, I have really let sink in. The scorpion analogy that she uses is just so spot on, that it is hard to now not use it when I think of relationships in general.

i have gone back and done a ton of reading on the protector self vs. inner child vs. true self and there is a great deal of insight that you could gain by really understanding some of that. now am i smart enough to figure it all out on my own...meh, but i have had conversations with my IC about these topics and with the reading, it makes soooooo much more sense what the hell he was talking about, DUH. if he would've told me that in the first place, right.

Pre-validation, has been great way to approach conversations.
being compassionate towards her, understand that the lack of physical - intimacy is coming from a place of hurt, that makes me sad. trying to see through my 'pain' (we'll call it that, for lack of better term...maybe disappointment) and see that, hey there IS effort from her, maybe not the effort that I want to see, but it is there.

I believe it was ASITIS late last summer that had mentioned that my anxiety or lack of self-esteem was clouding my vision. It rings truer in my heart more now than when he said it. Maybe it is a sign of becoming less enmeshed, IDK. I still feel like i love my wife as deeply, if not more than i ever have. it does hurt sometimes, when i would desire for a little more...is that my 'need' or my desire, that is something that i am still trying to figure out.

Overall though, i have had to really look at the fact that, although i have said i didn't have any 'expectations' well, was i really able to just drop them. probably not. that kind of mindset is not as easy to change as all that. especially when it comes time to examine our emotional security, the brain NEEDS that just as much as your body needs water, food and sleep. Maslow has placed that below food, etc...but we have seen so very often, maybe it is closer that he has identified. how many people come here can't even sleep or eat because of the emotional hurt and lack of stability in their lives. i am off topic, sorry. going back now...yes, the brain needs that security. if you see one thing and hear another, it is really hard to reconcile that in your head and move forward.

So, what does that mean to Zephyr, i can either chose to believe that my wife is what amounts to a sociopath OR that she is trying, that she is still in great pain, that she doesn't have all the answers, that she had not been able to face her past, maybe those feeling are not there in her heart yet, has not been able to find that attraction for me she once had, that she has not been able to let go of all of the resentment she has held onto, unable for her to deal with potential guilty feeling for or tell me what has gone on over last how many years AND me still continue to live my life as i want to, together. Only one tiny part of all that is in my control... and that is what i have been doing.

My wife is not showing those signs of disrespectfulness (in fact she asks permission for things and checks in on others, shows respect in conversations to me and COMMANDS the same from my children for me, asks for opinions on a gambit of topics and actually accepts my advice on things - rather than doing just the opposite), tons of 'thank-yous', 'i appreciates', I Love You’s and the like. Just seems like those are not rebellious behaviors. progress, right, feet moving forward.

I know deep inside of me, there is a conflict of what-if wife never IS able to look at herself and figure out her side. There are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of accounts of this type of issue documented where the spouse never is able to face their past, the relationship slowly deteriorates, even with effort, the push-the pull to gain space and distance while trying to hold onto the security and they eventually turn all that resentment towards their LBS and BOOM it is over, very messy, drawn-out and very painful.

I do have the trepidation (especially after reading Cali's latest whopper posts) that i am staring at the risk that she is trying to turn me into what amounts to her 'non-sexual, domestic partner' or whatever living happily ever after or worse. I cannot claim that I have not spent too much time considering this option, and what / how I would deal with that likelihood…how would I walk away just because of the physical. But it is not just sex, right…it is the sharing, the intimacy, the empathy, the desire and yes…sex plays a roll too.

I've spend a ton of energy on trying to put it all together, trying to figure it all out, trying to make all of what I've seen fit into a nice little wrapping, and be able to explain it all...that has driven me crazy and has for a really long time.
I really don't want that anymore. Honestly, i don't think that i will ever get all of the explanation that i want. As long as i keep seeing effort or believing that her efforts are there, i will keep down this road. I think that watching her feet move (instead of just watching her lips move) and making sure i keep my new and improved boundaries intact to protect myself and my children, than what else is a man who believes in marriage to do. (ok, so not really improved because they are all pretty new). **Edit, this does sound very naïve, I get that…wasn’t meant as a woe-is-me statement…just considering what to do**

I could walk away (ultimately i know i must be willing to do this, and i feel at this point, I will be able to, if need be) but have i really seen this through yet, NO, i could not look my children in the eye and say that I've done all that i can. i believe that this new relationship between my wife and i hasn't come to a head yet. I've seen so many glimpses of what i believe is her true self, and she can be wonderful. More likely the path will be to keep working on myself. keep making strides towards me being the best person that i can be. i need to continue to look at behaviors that i won't live with from her and address them. Continue to be more assertive for what i want and what i don't. Continue to lead, continue to be me.

I know I've repeated sentiments I've typed before, just...when i start typing i have a hard time stopping and getting what is in my head onto paper very clearly, so i go backwards sometimes to go forward.

**edit. I typed this yesterday and wanted to marinade overnight to make sure thoughts wee how i wanted to express them. Last night was something...interesting.

Our computer just stopped working. I tore it apart and took the hard drive to work to throw it on another to figure out what was wrong. Dead hard drive. Uugh. She was gonna be pi$$ed. I installed a backup hard drive to save pics, files, etc. But have to manually do it. She never did. I basically havent used that box since put this last drive in a year ago.

I have a plan moving forward, but needed to break the news that she lost files. I basically went in knowing she would be upset, frustrated and disappointed...and that it was not my fault. It us something i spent effort on researching, repairing, setting up...an effort that exceeded what would be considered the standard of care or effort.

Sure enough, she was mad. She tried to busy herself, but was expressing anger the whole times. I left her stew rather than try to make things better. I was frustrated too. The silence between us was broken. after 10-15 minutes when i gave her my plan to move forward adding even more redundancy with automatic back ups and told her how frustrated I was cause the thing was only just over a year ago and cost good money for too of the line solid state hardware. She vented. I validated. She could sense i was upset too. She actually said that it wasnt my fault, that this [censored] happens and it $ucks.

During the silence, my stomach started to turn. I could feel the anxiousness and fear welling. Fear that the storm was coming. I was wrong. It never came. We talked about the plan for future backups and i told her that this plan was over and above normal care, but i just didnt want to lose any more data / pictures if we didnt have to.

She thanked me for working on this. Bed time was normal, no withdrawal from her.

This morning, same thing. Great interactions. She even sought me out in the kitchen to give me kiss goodby. As she went to pull away, she just repositioned to come in for a deeper hug and kissed my neck, something she just hasnt done in a while.

For a long time i kept looking for a finish line..last night as i was falling asleep l came to the conclusion that was just stupid black and white stuff, that this journey is always moving, there is NO finish line. As long as i keep moving, stop to smell some roses, stay healthy, protect myself, i am going to be alright.** edit over

Thank you, i realize that is quite a lot to get out there.

[Fogg]

There are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of accounts of this type of issue documented where the spouse never is able to face their past, the relationship slowly deteriorates, even with effort, the push-the pull to gain space and distance while trying to hold onto the security and they eventually turn all that resentment towards their LBS and BOOM it is over, very messy, drawn-out and very painful.

This is pretty much what happened to me but I played a very destructive and equal role in that downfall also. I think my issues were similiar to hers but not ad intense.

All of that was good stuff and I'm glad to see you writing it all out. Write pages and pages if you need to, it's helps to get it out somewhere. With how similiar our W's are and histories it's interesting to see how the path would have gone if I would have cleaned up my side of the street much earlier. I think your doing an amazing job and are on track. There is no finish line but you are improving your M over time. It may never be perfect but that's ok, it's all a growing experience and will take time.

When you said you see the real her and glimpses it made my heart dropped a bit. That's how I feel also, I know the real her buried deep down is amazing and I would love nothing more that to spend the rest of my life trying to get it out of her. It's up to them if they unpile the crap off of it, nothing we can do about that.

Don't second guess yourself too much, you are doing amazing and what you have with her right now has enormous potential. Don't get too caught up in thinking leaving will give her the space to change or someone else will be a better match. It's all the grass is greener crap and rarely works out the way people want it too. Another thing about what I quoted at first. When we expect or fear something to happen in the future we end up doing things that may contribute to it. Don't assume she will just build resentment over the years and ignore her issues until a BD. Her issues are hers to figure out, just figure out yours and be that shining lighthouse to others for how it's done. You become the best man you can and no matter what happens in life you will be able to handle it and live. It's not always going to be pleasant or easy but we can always make the most of what we do have.

[Zephyr]

Crazy buzy weekend. I had tons of phun!

Foggy, tha k you keeping my head on straight, it is a good reminder to hear...keep positive and stop fewring what-if.

I really love this place for all of the wonferful souls who have come together, to heal snd learn to grow...thank you for remebering to water me

[roist]

Sorry for slow reply. I am consciously not here as often.You know all the great points of this community so it is nothing against here. I am trying to focus on other stuff and at times it is disheartening to see others struggle here. I owe you and the rest of the DB clan for getting me this far. I'll pay that forward when the time is right for me.

I am glad my questions got you to open up. The questions I asked were just curiousity and nothing major. Just trying to get a better feel for your situation .

I don't have time to comment on everything you wrote,so I'll just mention your realisation about the finish line. I agree and disagree.dB and our improvements are ongoing for life, so they should be continuous.I think that our M should be seen more as a stage event. Once one stage is completed we continue onto the next.

Glad you are having fun

[Vanilla]

just checking in

I read the book you recommended on FOO and abuse

V

[Zephyr]

Hey lady V, I appreciate you checking up on me. Keeping busy as usual and having fun.

This weekend is already shaping up too.

Which book did you end up reading, ghosts in the bedroom, Allies in healing or the body keeps score. I am not finished with Ghosts yet. There is some eye opening stuff for sure.

[Vanilla]

I had already read the body keeps the score. It is now my go to book.

The one you recommended was Ghosts in the bedroom. I managed it twice and although I found it informative I felt some of the theory was guess work rather than based on science. When you have finished perhaps we can discuss it.

Particularly the PTSD part of it.

V

[Zephyr]

Thanks V, been crazy busy at lunch time. I will get some time next week to finish the book. I know virtually nothing of PTSD affects so I will have to defer to your wisdom and do some more research myself.

This week is whirling by...still have a ton to be done.

Went to the Chieftain's Concert last night and it was awesome. Went to a really nice dinner before the show. Tried to keep it as non-romantic as I could. We did split a bottle of wine at dinner and walked over to the theater.

They had a woman touring with them who sang a few songs, she belted out Foggy Dew pretty well. Song is just plain awesome, so that basically made the show.

Today is an open day, got my gym visit in before work so think will play some games with the boys, they have no school tomorrow so we can stay up a little later than normal

This weekend have an outing with a bunch of folks coming in from all over the Midwest and Canada in Rosemont, so kids are going to my folks house. just looking to have fun. we've gone to this event for last three years, even during the really bad times...and still managed to enjoy myself. NO EXPECTATIONS.

Sunday evening, I have tickets to see the High Kings in Chicago. Man am I looking forward to the show. I wanted to get tickets to a different venue so my boys could go too, but they had a wrestling meet that day, there would have been no way to make it happen. So just me and the wife for dinner and the show (since it is the Chicago Winery, there may be a glass of wine in it for me). My goal is to keep it light. NO EXPECTATIONS.

So that is my GAL for the weekend. Yes much of it is with wife, so not sure that it is as effective GAL as what we are supposed to be up to, I just want to enjoy my life right now, it is all I can do and so I will continue on.


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So I have been here over a year officially, a bit longer as a lurker. I maybe in the next couple of weeks, I will do some kind of reflection post on my DB progress, IDK...I will say this above all other things, I am a better man than I was a year ago and that is quite a start. Also, there were literally a dozen times at least that I truly thought that things were done - each time, proof in the pudding, I WAS WRONG to doubt and wrong to worry about something out of my control...so advice is that having those expectations (good or bad) are BAD.

[roist]

That was the question I hinted about!! If you would look back over your journey and share your viewpoint on ONE or several key learnings you have made.Basically I was going to ask if you could go back in time what advice/insights would you share with your younger self?

Great minds think alike. Where I come from the saying goes "great minds think a like, fools seldom differ" but I avoid adding negative stuff except as a joke.

Eventually you should be able to have those expectations.They are about stuff that is natural in a healthy M. I admire you patience.

Sounds like a good concert. Out of curiosity what are your W's Irish ro
Have a good weekend. Sounds like fun.