Letting go, finally

[JujuB]

Hi JGUY

I have only read your last couple of posts and some of your older ones. It sounds like wife is attracted again because she senses you have a crush on OW. Now she feels a challenge. You are no longer a sure thing. You being attracted to someone else certainly would improve ones PMA. It makes us realize that there is life after rejection/separation/divorce and it makes us less needy.

I know it is against DB policy to date, and I have not formed an opinion on it and I am certainly not recommending that you do so. Especially when things are moving in your favor. But I do notice that when LBS finds or begins to date someone else, WS comes back. (Eyetie and Texas hubby come to mind) very interesting.

Anyway, happy that you are doing better.

[JGuy]

Interesting. You might be right JujuB. No dating for me, just a crush that I am keeping contained and being honest with my W about. It feels good to have 100% transparency. If the crush persists and starts to feel more dangerous then I may need to distance myself from this OW if I'm serious about saving my M. Even if I wanted to give up on a M, rebounding right away with someone else would be a bad way to start the next R. So either way I need to contain this. I'm hoping she can become a good friend and the crush will pass.

[sandi2]

JujuB, I don't know that it would be considered a DB policy. It is usually more of an opinion, from various board members, about dating. As with a lot of other advice, it comes through having a clearer head, being detached from this particular poster's situation, observation of other cases, or from personal experience.

I have seen some cases when the WW couldn't make up her mind, saying she just didn't feel attracted to the H, etc. Then, low & behold, if someone started noticing the LBH, or if he started dating.......it certainly helped the WW decide if she was attracted or not. One case in point was Puppy Dog Tails. Btw, they were separated at the time.

I have also seen cases where dating led to complications in reconciling. So, it is definitely a serious consideration. Plus, I think this is an issue where the LBH finds himself on the road with his WW. If that makes sense.

[JGuy]

Thanks for that perspective, Sandi.

My W has been supportive me continuing to explore a friendship with the OW, and she is trusting me to contain the attraction, but also seems to be taking the stance that she doesn't feel like she deserves to make a fuss about it, given all she has put me through. I have been playing my cards carefully, hoping that I can use this as an opportunity to demonstrate to my W how to deal with an attraction to someone else from a place of integrity.

In summary, I have been solidly acting from integrity, and I am happy about how I have handled it with the exception of being a bit naive about how attraction works. The basis of my friendship with the OW has to do with a curiosity about the strange spiritual connection we seem to have. As you recall, I met her in a dream before I ever met her in person, and then after I did meet her in person briefly, she approached me out of the blue one day to say that she had a vision about be, and this is how our friendship started. Really weird and hard to ignore! I think anyone in my shoes would probably be curious.

In a text conversation with the OW last weekend, she was the one to point out the elephant in the room by expressing her desire to be respectful of my W and not step on any toes. My W is a friend of hers too, since we both know her from our son's grade 1 class, who her daughter is also in. She really would be in a very awkward position if somehow a EA was to develop between us. I assured her that I am dedicated to focusing on rebuilding my M right now, and despite the fact the she is indeed attractive, I couldn't be a more monogamous guy. This set the ground for a platonic friendship and we were both glad to have that out of the way. It felt like we had established a safe container to explore this strange friendship without having to worry about crossing the line.

We hung out together one evening after that conversation and went much deeper into talking about life and all the things we are learning. It was very nice and going exactly how I had hoped it would, and I kept my W informed about every detail.

During all this time, my W has been continuing to inch closer and closer toward me. She has been kissing and hugging me again and she has expressed tentative interest in reconciling, but wants to take it slowly. There is a new quality to our R now that is much more transparent and raw. We are both much more present and it seems like the changes happening in us individually are electrifying our R and bringing some new life into it.

On Wednesday I had another text conversation with the OW. During that conversation, she again expressed her concern about wanting to remain respectful of my W. I reiterated what we had previously discussed about our intention of keeping things within a safe container, but I also apologized if I had in any way been unconsciously sending her mixed signals. I do, after all, really like her a lot, and despite my intention of keeping things platonic, my enthusiasm about wanting to get to know her more may be sending an unintended message. She ended up revealing that she had been feeling an attraction me as well, and in that moment I realized that I may have been too naive and idealistic in thinking that we could easily contain this side of things while exploring something that was "just a friendship". We both expressed our desire to keep our friendship going, but also acknowledged the danger of creating a mess, which neither of us want to do. She said that she really wanted to talk to my W about this, and I encouraged her to do so. She knew that I had been 100% transparent with my W, and I updated my W about this latest conversation so that she knew what was unfolding and the fact that the OW might talk to her.

On Friday I ran into the OW while dropping off our kids at school. She asked to talk to me and we had a brief conversation. She explained that she had seen my W the day before, but couldn't find a way to break through the awkwardness and bring up the topic. She was feeling really bad about it. I apologized for my part in creating this situation, intentional or not, and reiterated my good intentions. We discussed whether it might be good to keep our distance for awhile. It was sad, and I felt regretful that it may have been a mistake when I naively decided to be honest and tell her about the attraction in the first place.

Later that day, I talked to my W about it and told her about how bad the OW was feeling. I suggested that it may really help if she could talk to the OW and address the issue. My W did it! According to my W, they had a good conversation in which my W told the OW that she shouldn't worry or feel guilty about any of this, that my W trusts us to be respectful and would never want to see our friendship come to an end as a result of us worrying about this.

The OW texted me Friday evening to say that this really helped and she was feeling better. I felt relieved. I am still feeling sad about the fact that I may have to keep some distance from the OW for awhile. I thought I was doing a good job of keeping it safe, but I also doubt whether I was being realistic.

On the bright side, this experience has helped me to see that there will always be other wonderful fish in the sea, should things not work out in the end with my M. This gives me a bit more of a sense of security, so that while working to see if I can rebuild my M, I won't be as desperate or as likely to abandon myself due to a fear of being alone. If I'm going to rebuild a good M, then I need to be fearlessly true to myself.

Also on the bright side, I feel like I have done a decent job of setting an example for how one can deal with an attraction to an OW from a place of honesty and integrity. This has earned me some self-respect and I hope some respect from my W, too.

Things are still very unknown with my sitch. It's good news that my W is interested in reconciling, but I still have a lot of ambivalence and concerns about our R that weigh on me. I want to really focus on seeing what we can do to save the M and maintain high standards for myself, good boundaries etc. One of the things that I anticipate being very difficult for me is resisting the temptation to jump back into having sex again as soon as she wants to. The longing for physical intimacy is extremely strong in me after having had zero for 3.5 months and counting. I'm really not sure what boundaries I should maintain around that. It seems like my sitch is really shifting into reconciliation mode, so I would appreciate any advice there.

[rd500]

Hi Jguy , this post is going to be seen by you as criticism so read on fore warned.

We've discussed intelligence on here before and I'm going to state that I do believe you are NOT stupid Most posts on here can often be broken down to core themes , people looking for hope , people angry , sometimes people failing to see the obvious in their sitch re OW or OM I myself wanted people to tell me that OM was not serious and W would be back and a lot of my posts reflected this

Your posts have a similar theme where you seem to want validation regardless of what you do You use the word integrity though out your posts again as if your trying to convince yourself by repeating the word over and over.

Your friendship with OW is born from a place where your emotionally unstable due to your Ws affairs You flip from wanting M to not wanting M and I completely understand but you have never given yourself a chance to relax back. You go to ICs , to Shamans, to a OW , to friends , etc

Your W is of course pleased about OW because it justifies her actions and possibly leaves the door open for her and OM. Read Sandis post about WWs , it's not uncommon for Ws to want their Hs to move forward with a new R

Jguy , I get the feeling your very lost and looking for any path that makes you feel better in the short term. Of course having someone attracted to you makes you feel good and maybe the lady has a spiritual connection to you but no matter how you dress it up or use words like integrity this is a plaster on a serious wound

I would advise you step back from your sitch and take stock Your W is wayward and wayward people do not change in a short time frame Your R with OW might have caught her attention and maybe raised some jealous emotions but does your W fear losing you ? Really or is this just a human reaction ?

Because of your history with cults I worry that you don't value yourself enough and your quest for validation drives you in directions that maybe a more grounded person wouldn't go. I feel you would be great at giving advice but not so great at taking it

IMHO you need to really respect yourself and accept that you have your flaws just like the rest of us Your quest for answers seems to blind you to answers maybe you don't really want

Your sitch is really tough , you've been rejected and betrayed and those are very hard to accept and then deal with , I'm struggling with it daily

Re OW , step back , look at it as if it were someone else. OW is a friend of W , a parent to your child's classmate and she's aware of your sitch Does she not see her involvement in your life , right now , is not healthy ? I don't know this person but looking for the outside , I fail to see how she thinks involving her self in any aspect of your life , right now , will be a good thing in the long run

JGuy. All the above is my humble opinion. I've posted before that I'm far from perfect , I have however dealt with lots of people in my life and I've come accross people who think similar to how you appear in your posts. You don't like criticism , you take offence really easily and you are able to justify things to yourself while knowing inside that maybe the justification is not quite valid

As always I want Jguy to be happy and content in the long term. Short term I would like Jguy to give himself time to let his feelings stettle and not react from every emotion that he experiences

Take care. Rd

[Sotto]

Hi JGuy, I would agree with RD. I read all the tentative stuff with OW and exploring the 'friendship' with integrity - and thought - nope, that sounds like a disaster to me. Don't kid yourself on that one my friend and forgive any bluntness.

I subscribe to the Zues philosophy of - try your hardest to save your M. If that isn't possible, wait at least a year after D, use that time to work on you, and then start to think about dating.

Your approach - however you may dress all of that up - isn't healthy IMHO. The mere fact of having an OP in the picture that you have feelings for just isn't going to fly. And it doesn't matter if your W is 'supportive' - this isn't about her, it's about you. For me, I have a very clear view - I don't want to be married AND dating.

So, my advice would be to cut this OP out of the picture. Have a look at recent posts on Mutatio's thread. Let her know that you feel vulnerable at the moment and her attention has been welcomed by you - but you are not in a position to have contact with her just now.

JMHO of course - and please forgive any bluntness....I do mean the advice kindly and only hope for the best for you. Xx

[JGuy]

Hey guys, thanks for offering your point of view. It doesn't come across as criticism but it does come across like you are challenging me, and I'm not sure why because I am aligned with most of what you have said. Yes, there is an immature part of me that wants to indulge in the fantasy that this OW is my long lost soulmate. There is another mature part of me that is wise enough to know that is just a fantasy, and that although the OW may indeed be a person who presents a valuable learning opportunity, I am well aware that I am vulnerable to seeing things unclearly right now because the mature part of me is still developing. I have been working on myself and I am starting to notice progress, but I have a long way to go. I know that am in no shape to be dating at all. I am aware of these different parts of me and I don't think that personal growth is about getting rid of the immature part of me. It's about becoming aware of the immature part of me so that the mature part of me can take control.

It seems like when you read my post, you saw only the immature part of me coming through and not the mature part of me. I'm curious why that is? When I read your post this morning, I felt hurt by it, as it has the opposite effect from the validation that I was hoping for. I need to believe that despite having this immature part of me, there is also a mature part of me that is firmly in control and is growing stronger. I want validation from others who can see this too, so that I can gain confidence that I'm on the right track. I fail to see what's wrong with seeking support in the form of validation for this purpose. Am I missing something here?

I really wanted to be able to explore a friendship with the OW if there is any way possible to keep things safe and platonic. It is really cool how we have this unusual spiritual connection and it will be very sad if I have to cut her off entirely because I can't trust myself to prevent it from going in an unhealthy direction. I would like to think that if the mature part of me can stay in control, it may be quite possible to cultivate a friendship that doesn't pose a danger. Maybe you're right that I'm being unrealistic though. I'm definitely pondering this one carefully.

Rd, I do think you're reading into me inaccurately when it comes to your comments about my use of the word integrity. In my past relationships, I have made mistakes in similar situations and I remember those mistakes clearly. This time, I think I am doing a great job of choosing to listen to the mature part of me. That's what I mean by having integrity and it's a step forward for me compared to how I have handled things in the past. I don't see what's wrong with celebrating this small victory and sharing it here. What's wrong with seeking validation for that? If you just straight up don't believe me and you really think I'm lost, then so be it. I won't gain as much value from your advice, however, unless we can resolve this.

[Sotto]

Yes, I'm just not with you on the whole - maturely exploring a friendship with OW (to whom you are attracted.) I think it's best to realise you are waaay to vulnerable to carry that one off and limit new friendships to guys - not attractive gals.

JMHO of course JGuy, but it's served me well so far to avoid 'friendships' on a 1-1 basis with attractive, single guys. I just don't really think that's possible - most times I believe a line gets crossed....

Good luck though with whatever you decide to do

[sandi2]

Yes, there is an immature part of me that wants to indulge in the fantasy that this OW is my long lost soulmate.

Do you see the similarity to a wayward spouse?

When I stepped over the line, I had been in a sexless M for years and my feminine ego was starved for validation. I became absorbed in an online game that helped me pass the hours without dwelling on my pain. I met a man who made me laugh and we would play for hours every evening. I had no sexual attraction to him. Then he suddenly pulled away and I felt desperate to make the connection with him again. I had become addicted to this "strange friendship". Out of this desperation, I stepped over the line and I started flirting with other male players. Eventually, I met the one who would be my OM. The point I am making is that this all started from me not getting my emotional needs met.

I bought into the fantasy. That is what you are doing, JGuy. Yes, it is a shot of ego food, and I am sure you were starving for it. Whatever the reason, whenever one spouse seeks gratification from a member of the opposite sex outside the M, he/she will be setup for a fall where someone will be hurt. When you have been rejected by your mate and then find yourself drawn to another person....it is your fragile state that hungers for all the things you want to believe this other person can provide. You can call it a strange friendship or whatever. Truth is, you have entered into the danger zone.

The OW is a rebound. It is not fair to either of you to try and have this friendship while you are married. If this is a woman who would make friendships with a M man......and that's okay with you, then put it to a test. Ask her to wait. Ask her for no more contact as long as you are M, that you need to do what is right and that if you get divorced, then you will contact her to see if she is still interested. If she really wants to "respect" your W or your M, she will graciously step away. If she is the lady you think, or hope, she is.....and if she has true feelings for you, she will wait.

Bottom line is that you can't have both women. I learned that the fantasy world and reality will have a head on crash and there will be casualities.

[rd500]

Hi Jguy. I find it hard to post to you knowing that you seem to look for offence where there really isn't any If you read Sottos post to you , she states how's it her humble opinion because when you r not agreed with or validated it seems to take it as an attack on you and we have to stress that it's not

I had to change how I normally post when posting to you and choose language that I would not normally use on here because I see your a decent guy that appears to be looking for any answer and a quick solution to your M and you are unusual in how you handle advice / criticism in your sitch

This OW , to me , lacks some moral compass that she would involve herself in your life while a M is in trouble Her actions of wanting to speak to W and warning you that you must both be careful sound like very controlling and manipulative This OW placed herself in your life and that's not a healthy or friendly thing to do for where you are right now.

If you read Atpeaces thread , a poster called PP likened Atpeaces denial to seek legal help. (after getting advice from several posters to do so ) to a drunk driver who thinks he knows best and is about to drive home At peace or the drunk driver won't listen

This is your life and the decisions you make will never affect me but I've felt your pain and hope to help point out some things that you appear unable to see

Your in very hard sitch and from the outside you appear to be running full speed in all directions because your lost. I could be wrong and your R with OW is fine and you have it under control.

Your interactions with IC and the Shaman were at completel odds with each other yet when I pointed this out you ignored it because it didn't suit you or you didn't agree but I was going on your info so I can't see how you wouldn't agree

My point in all this is , the advice myself and others give comes from what we have e experienced and seen on this board. You are free you take on board the advice or go about things your way.

I thought your admission recently that once you started to GAL and care less about the outcome of the M and more about you , as advised from day one on your thread ,was very mature and showed that you were maybe seening that some advice on here that you argued with at the start , you could now see was some what right.

My pointing out your repetitive use of the word integrity came across ( to me ) as someone trying to convince themselves more than anyone else If you feel you acted with integrity then that's what matters. I wouldn't agree and feel that while your in this sitch , integrity would be working on yourself while standing for your M and not getting into an other R that may hamper this I truly don't feel that you not letting the R with OW progress romantically is acting with integrity but to me it's just acting normally and maybe that's where we differ

If you read through your posts from day 1 there is lot of grand statements regarding yourself and while I don't think this is completely wrong it does make me feel your lacking in some self worth ( as am I re insecurities in Rs ) and this I feel makes you look for validation where others might not need it

Again Jguy , all I want is for Jguy to get through this and become the best Jguy possible

Re your W wanting to reconcile , I would let actions speak louder than words She has flipped back and forth several times already and I would urge caution

Please read the above as its intended , this is not to criticise you , it's my attempt to point out how a neutral outsider takes the info you supply and processes it

Stop looking for answers or solutions for the moment. Relax back , work on you in a healthy , structured ( I/C) way and GAL (. Have fun )

Whatever you decide I truly wish it works for you.

Take your time and process your feelings

Take care. Rd