Sandi's Reflections

[Georgia Bulldogs]

There are so many issues and strategies and philosophies discussed in this thread that it makes me dizzy to read.

I found myself agreeing and disagreeing throughout.

First off...I agree with Sandi that sitting back and accommodating a wayward doesn't work. Men very often do have conflict avoidance issues as well as lack of understanding about marriage and women.

Just a couple of quick counter points though:

1. Dr. Glover of No More Mr. Nice Guy fame is not nor ever was "a nice guy". His two marriages failed (*see quote below - he was a serial adulterer and still sounds very much like an unrepentant wayward). Part of Dr. Glover's rationalizations and justifications for marrying, cheating on and then dumping his two wives is that his picker was bad and he shouldn't have ever married these two (weaker, no fun and less undesirable) women. That he was too much of a "nice guy" so he married them and then cheated on them because they weren't right together from the get go. His whole philosophy about be a good "ender" of relationships and dumping people (women) after getting really intimate and close with them (including sexually, of course) because they aren't perfect fits in your own narcissistic life plan of banging younger and younger women and having fun where fun suits you....is completely anathema to the purpose and values of this forum (divorce busting). In other words...Dr. Glover promotes divorce (being a good "ender" by realizing your wife was never a good fit for you and you'd have realized that if you weren't so busy being nice and trying to fix things or patch things up with her). Dr. Glover's philosophies and advice on relationships should be read with that understanding. He was NOT a nice guy trying to act like a nice guy and it then resulted in him becoming a serial cheater. He, not his ex-wives (particularly the wife of his youth), was the poor choice and sorry excuse for a husband.

[Dr. Robert Glover] Yes. Actually, my second wife, like a said it began as an affair. We were both married when we got together. I did have an affair early in that marriage and that’s why I started going to therapy. Then, yes she did have an affair towards the end of it. Then I stuck around three more years. I had other reasons for sticking around, like kids were involved. But yeah, on both of our parts there was unconscious stuff going on there, for sure.

2. Being a nice guy doesn't cause wives to cheat and women love actual "nice guys". This can be demonstrated by how quickly and easily most of the divorced betrayed husband's on these forums have absolutely no trouble finding new girlfriends and wives within a short time after divorce that are so often twice the woman their ex-wayward wife ever was. These "nice guys" ARE awesome.

3. I have gleaned that MOST OF THE TIME (not always) the primary or biggest problems and issues in the marriage can be most attributable to the wayward spouse. Sure fix some stuff and clean up your side of the marital street but stop blaming yourself (or your niceness) for your spouse's unhealthy, destructive and hurtful choices. Their choices can more probably and easily be explained by looking at the wayward's (and their family of origin's) history of bad choices. Generational curses happen because children from broken dysfunctional homes are more likely to cheat, abuse and use and break their own homes....the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree. Notice this is applied to both wayward husbands and wayward wives. How "nice" their husband is doesn't really factor in.

4. As a man...YOU define your own masculinity. Be careful when others (women, men of weak character like Dr. Glover and especially your own wayward wife) tell you what a man is. Neither my wife nor, apparently, Sandi would put up for 2 seconds with what they both put their husband through. So they both pull their hair out watching betrayed husbands on these forums put up with so much crap. However, both Sandi's husband and I saved our wives from the grips of infidelity and restored our loving marriages and families. We both did something right even though we didn't do everything right every day.

5. Your biggest enemy isn't your wife's lack of respect for you. She couldn't care less and demonstrably has ZERO respect for you. Thus you can demand or request all the respect you want but she won't give it to you unless it helps her keep the affair going. It's all about the affair. Interfere with it and she'll be hateful. Leave it and her alone - she'll be as pleasant as a wayward can be. The reason being nice doesn't work isn't because it kills her respect for you, it doesn't work because it doesn't interfere or otherwise facilitate the ending of the affair. Accomplishing "no contact" is the only thing that matters. You've got to hold her accountable and, if she resists, expose evil. If your wife is messing with a married man, and you are a Christian husband, you have a duty to confront your spouse and if they refuse to stop sinning, to disclose the affair to OM's wife (without warning or threatening OM or your wife or it WILL backfire). If your Christian, you also have a duty (after private confrontation and she refuses to end it) to disclose your wife's sin to the Church/Pastor who should bring it to the attention of the Church elders and any bible study group the wayward participates in. I also think, in short order, the children of the marriage must be told lest the little narcissists conclude it's all about them and something they are causing. The children need to know the truth about their lives too...in an age appropriate manner.

6. Get help. You've never been cheated on before and certainly don't know how to respond. The fact you find yourself in this situation at all is probably an indication you have weak relationship skills and conflict avoidance issues already so trying to do it yourself is foolhardy. Your wife is cheating on you. You can't conflict avoid yourself out of this. I know it FEELS shameful but infidelity is rampant. It's already happened to many of your friends and family you just don't know it yet. Getting help from experienced persons is essential for your best chance to save your wife and family as well as your emotional well-being. Especially as the only sane parent remaining in the household, your children need you to be smart about this and seek wise counsel to save mom and their family. In the process though be sure to use your discernment from whom you solicit and take advice. There are more wayward therapists out there than just Dr. Glover. Marital therapists actually have one of the highest rates of divorce and infidelity of any profession. Ask questions - a good therapist, in general, should be happily married, speak well of his/her spouse and have a client list full of reconciliation success stories one or more of whom he'd be willing to offer you as a reference. Personally, I think you are better off with a marriage coach because counselors generally prefer talk therapy and you need someone experienced to actually tell you what to do instead of talking about your (or your wife's) childhood; or, worse, how you caused your wife's affair because you were too nice.