So let me get this straight. She asks you to pick up a chicken and you decide to get wedge fries as well. She then gets mad at you for getting wedge fries since she made sides. It then escalates to her telling you to move out and launches into a full fledged relationship discussion. Is that it in a nutshell?
Couple of things- *it isn't about the fries *stop talking about the relationship, at all!
I have to agree with Sandi. You need to totally detach. Focus on you and your kids. Focus on you by preparing for that big exam. Focus on the kids, even if your wife is sleeping in. Do it because you love them and want to spend time with them. Don't opt out because you want to show your wife a thing or two.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be.
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Hi Sandi and thanks for setting me straight - I need it!
I have no problem standing up to my wife - I do it all the time and hence the fights. That said, I don't think I know how to do it effectively. Feel silly asking, but in this fries example, when she called me on the phone and was short with me I simply said "well, anyway, I got fries" as I wasn't getting drawn into an argument over such a stupid thing and I was still getting them. Was there a better way for me to respond? Are there any situational examples for when a spouse speaks disrespectfully to you and what the ideal way is to respond? I need to learn more effective tactics. I just want her to know that I don't appreciate the way she is speaking to me.
Thanks for the detachment post - I can really appreciate how this could set you free. I must admit though, as much as it makes sense I'm struggling with its application. I'm so used to ignoring and pulling back when we are fighting - I need to break these bad habits. Again, if you have any situational examples that would be very helpful. Again, if the W is being disrespectful in her tone in the way that she is talking to you, do I just simply say "I don't appreciate you speaking to me with that disrespecting tone" and don't address what ever she was trying to say to me? Sorry for being so thick skulled about this but I can see that this is going to be vitally important for me moving forward no matter what happens.
BTW Sandi - when the W brought up me moving out again yesterday, I told her if that's what she needs she can go right ahead and move out. But I told her I wasn't going anywhere. I opened the door for her but she wouldn't walk out - that's when she complained that I would rather risk ruining our marriage than me moving out. She's the one that keeps bringing it up and each time I tell her she can go ahead and move out if she wants. Maybe I didn't make this point very clear in my posts.
Sandi, Thorton, Maximus, Cristy - thank-you for all your feedback! It's all really helping to put some perspective on this whole thing. I know it's not all my fault but she does a great job of making me feel that way. I don't think this will change until I better understand how to apply detachment and avoid getting caught up in the argument in the first place.
I think I'm confused about detaching. On one hand you say to stand up to the W but isn't detaching about live and let live. If I am truly detached I should not care what she says and just let it roll of my shoulders - no response required right? Or am I still not getting it. Think I need those examples. lol
Truth is, she might already think the M is over right now. Doesnt mean she can't get her feelings back. But she is definately trying to get you out so it will be hard to come back.
I would get a free consultation with a lawyer just so you know your rights.
Thorton, you may be right. She may very well feel like the marriage is over - she probably does in fact. She has said words to that effect in the heat of an argument as she has brought up me moving out. It's possible she could get her feelings back, maybe not. I don't want what we've had in recent years for a relationship either though. If she is going to be playing these games and holding a gun to my head I will be the one to end up leaving. I love her but that's not happiness.
As for the manipulation, I told her yesterday she's playing games (she didn't respond). I don't know what else to say in those circumstances.
Yeah, I probably should talk to a lawyer just to know where I stand legally.
I'm with Thornton. Sandi is all over this board helping us LBS. Whether we get our spouses back or not it sure gives you a swift kick in the behind when you get some great insight from her. Many other also are great motivation for places to start. I didn't mean to hijack your post, just wanted to thank a caring helper.
Fight the good fight no matter the quality of your opponent.
Me-50 WAW-45 S13 Married 24 years Bomb 1-Jan.2008 Disc. EA She came back for 8 years Bomb 2-Jan-2016 Separation 3-12-2016
Friday night we went out as a family and saw a local university hockey game (we're Canadian eh) - was a lot of fun for us all. Saturday night my wife and I went to a dinner at a friends with 3 other couples. My wife was probably a bottle into wine at this point and she was staring at me from across an island in the kitchen of the house we were at. I looked away and then looked back again and she was still stating at me. I mouthed to her 'are you ok' - I wasn't sure if she was a little too tipsy or what. She didn't respond and just kept staring at me so I walked over to her to ask if she was ok and she put her arm out around me and then started to kiss me. We had a couple of nice kisses and then stayed together for a few minutes then she game me a pat on the butt as if to say you should go now (at least that is how I took it - not so much in negative way but because we were in the middle of conversation in the middle of the kitchen so we were probably a bit of a spectacle at the moment). Anyway, we've not fought since the last fight I wrote about here last week. I have my one on one with the marriage counselor tonight so will see how that goes. I'm not reading anything into the kissing, I think she was just tipsy and dropped her guard for a few moments. We haven't talked about it nor do I plan to. I really want a positive and permanent change in our marriage as much as she does so think I'm best to stay the course following the advice from these forums as so far it has helped me a lot. This is going to take some time to get back on track. It may very well be the tips and guidance I've received from you all that got my wife staring at me in the first place (I have not been pursuing at all - still being a good guy - but no pursuit and attempts at affection of any kind). Our tempers have certainly calmed down and my wife is still making future plans for her and I and the family so that's all a good sign (vacations etc). I'm really hoping the marriage counselor can help us with our communication issues. We don't fight fair with each other and we need to change that and ideally come up with a pull the chute safe word when things start going off the rails. There is also a lot of resentment my wife has (I have some but not a lot) and it needs to be dealt with properly and hopefully she can at some point forgive me and whomever else so that she can move on. She is still closed off emotionally and I don't expect that to change for some time.
Anyway, just a quick update from me. Things are much better this past week but we have a long way to go!
BTW - my wife has from time to time said "i'm not your mother" when referring to the housework etc. I find it insulting and have said so. She said the very same thing at the MC the other day saying "I feel like I'm his mother sometimes". MC didn't say anything and neither did I at the time as I was trying not to interrupt. But, I sometimes over react. What is the best response in this situation. Do I say, it's very disrespectful when you speak to me this way (or simply "don't speak to me that way - it's very disrespectful"). Her response will surely be to validate her reasons for saying it like "I say it because I do everything and you do nothing" etc. Often when I call her out on the way she speaks to me it starts with the word "because" and I tell her she is just validating the insult. As I said, I get overly defensive when insulted by her (I'm a little defensive overall these past years) and is one of the things I'm working on for myself. Just interested to see how others would recommend handling this type of situation.
None of this is validating.
In fact it is invalidating, failing to acknowledge the others view point.
Stating a feeling isn't an insult either.
Wonka has a brilliant cheat sheet on Validating, its in Cadet's opening posts as a link. I think using Validation in the way its meant to be would be the way to go.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I understand what you mean and have used the validating cheat sheet in the past few weeks and it has helped me a lot. That said, while she is entitled to her feelings (and I am doing better at acknowledging them) she doesn't have to be condescending about it and that was more my point. She would get a lot more understanding and validation from me if she would just drop the patronizing attitude. I mean, should I really just allow her to speak to me this way all of the time? I don't think that's healthy either. I'm trying to find a way to validate her feelings yet let her know that i don't appreciate the condescending remark. That said, this may go away as the whole household work load was addressed in our first MC meeting and I think my wife understood better how I looked at it (see earlier in this post) as I think I validated her part yet clearly defined our roles and responsibilities. She seemed to be ok with my take on it.
I think I'll go back and re-review the validation cheat sheet though. I'm finding it helpful to review the 37 rules and cheat sheets often.
Aside from this, I am getting sort of mixed signals from my wife. Her kissing me the other night but then she slept in an another room that same night. She slept in our bed Sunday night but last night she fell asleep on the couch and came to bed at 5am. She seems to want resolution in our marriage so I think we are on the right track and I'm doing pretty good at not pursuing her etc. She probably isn't liking that I'm not pursuing her and this may come up in our next MC meeting but my response would simply be that my wife is the one that said she wasn't attracted to me anymore so I've just pulled back to give her some space and try and rebuild our friendship and relationship. I am going to have to ask her at the MC session what exactly she wants from me at this point.
