Yep. I would totally avoid getting sucked into a fight w her right now. Nothing you can say right now will defuse her. You're going to have to show some discipline and not react.
Not saying she is definitely into anyone else. Just see if she is keeping her phone close to her at all times, doesnt answer the phone sometimes when it rings or leaves the room, takes off sound indicating message arrived, changes password or does not let you have access to her phone.
If this is the case she is most likely involved in an EA, in other words is texting sexy, lovey, emotional and personal things to someone else. If that is the case you are a step from having a W getting into a PA. She would also at this point be classified as a WW.
Read up on what an EA and PA is. No one ever thinks their wife will do such a thing.
Also a few other points:
1) You cannot repair your M. It is over the moment she wants out. 2) Do not go into explanations about whether it will be the first or last fight 3) The reason she is worse than you or more hurtful is because she is not holding back. She does not believe in you or the R so there is no reason to pull punches. That is why there is no sense fighting 4) I also think it is important you find out if there is an EA or PA because if there is then there is no point going to a MC.
On a final point. Stop thinking about her and start walking away and doing your own thing. She needs to see you are walking away and not focused on her. Do not get involved in arguments, walk away but never if she is disrespecting.you.
Stop her and then walk away. Always try and leave with the last word.
W went over to our friends last night with a few of the girls (the couple that own the house are our best friends) and rolled in around 1:30am. I get anxiety when I get very stressed and that is exactly what is happening to me. I was wide awake all night last night, heard her come in talk with her girl friend but she never made it upstairs to our room/bed - she slept on the couch on the main floor. I asked her this morning why she slept on the couch and she just said she wanted to (sure she just didn't want to see me if I happened to still be awake). Didn't really surprise me after the fight we had yesterday. Also, I usually get the kids up, fed and off to school in the morning but I figured this was a good morning to tell her to do it after she partied with the girls last night. Somehow the expectation is that I deal with the kids every morning whether I work from home that day or have to go into the office (which makes me late) while she sleeps in. In fact, she sleeps in every day unless there is a reason for her to get up. If I get up she won't get up to help in the morning.
I'm starting to feel mad. I don't feel any respect from her at all. She just makes me feel like sh@@ everytime an issue comes up whether we talk or fight about it. Frankly, I'm starting to lose respect for her. She won't take any ownership of any part of any argument when I do take my part. It's all or nothing with her. During the argument yesterday she said I haven't changed (over the past 1.5 weeks) since trying to turn things around. I told her I've been focusing on myself whether she notices it or not. I feel like she is just sitting back waiting for me to make some grand changes and the moment I slip up (we have an argument or something) the clock will just get reset back to start all over again. I can't live with a gun to my head all the time. Further, I told her things will probably get worse before they get better and that I expect to see some changes from her as well. No response. That's the other problem, anytime I nail her on an issue she dismisses it one way or another and won't give a straight answer (she can be very immature at times). An argument we got into two weeks ago that got heated and out of control again, my wife put her fingers in her ears and said over and over again "I'm not listening to you, I'm not listening to you" when I was trying to talk to her. As mad as I was I couldn't help but chuckle and ask her how old she was. Anyway, these are the types of things she will do. When she doesn't get her way she avoids the questions.
As for my exam, I'm completely derailed at the moment. I'm emotionally wrecked but also just haven't been able to find time to sit down and study. I think I'm going to head to a local library on Saturday to get out of the house and focus on my studies. I can do it at home but there are so many distractions and the kids always want rides here and there etc - my W can deal with it.
As this point I don't know how to interact with my wife. Big fight yesterday where she brought up me moving out again, she's gone dark again, went out to her friends last night and got home late and slept on the couch. I assume I should just act normal and not ignore her - I don't care that she went to her friends (they are my friends as well) and that she slept on the couch (we needed some space last night anyway). When I say normal, I don't mean giving her special attention (which was my old normal), I mean civil and discuss anything that needs to be talked about like the kids etc. We have a few of the kids birthdays that need to talked about.
We had still been doing things together lately but not as much as we normally did. We are supposed to go to our friends house for dinner Saturday night but at the moment I don't see how I could do it. My W and I would both be putting up a front to get through the dinner not to mention the point of the dinner was to plan a trip down south (I don't see that happening now).
Will see how things go this weekend. Need to get back to the civil calm we had prior to our last fight. I also need to get better at distinguishing between ignoring her and detaching from her as I need some distance. I don't want to walk around like I'm mad (ignoring her) - that just puts a really negative vibe in the house. Think I just need to talk to her as required but otherwise go ahead do the things I need to do without her.
Man, am I going to be on her dumping my heart out everyday for the next year?? I hope not!
Stop asking her questions about why she slept on the couch, you already know the answer.
You have to "act as if" you are ok and do not show her your anxiety.
You can be civil with W but do no try to be overly nice, she will see right through it.
I wouldnt bring up any travel plans either, let her bring that stuff up.
Detaching is not ignoring. Detaching is realizing you have no control of her and as a result not letting it affect your emotions. It's hard to do and takes lots of practice.
This isn't going to get resolved overnight so prepare yourself. Also, avoid relationship talks at all costs. You are just reminding her of why she's so pissed off.
I suggest your W has an entitlement attitude. By what you have told us, she doesn't have to clean the house, and she basically hates to cook, do laundry or pay bills. So, that doesn't leave much except whatever "she" wants to do. That's not a good situation and I'll warn any and all men who have a wife that doesn't have to work and b'tches about the little bit around the house....trouble is coming! It doesn't really have anything to do with her past, it has to do with her attitude and sense of entitlement.
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I ended up explaining to my wife why I picked up some fries and that opened up a can of worms - I probably shouldn't have said anything as it really wasn't worth it.
Another sign I see in the nice-guy type of H's when they want to "explain" themselves to their pi$$y W. Don't explain yourself, just shut her down when she is acting all pi$$y. You don't have to give explanations for buying fries. You are a grown man! A grown man should not have to feel he must answer to his wife b/c he bought fries with the chicken. I know, you call it explaining, but it's really a form of answering to her. This example shows the dynamics in this relationship. That is what needs to change. Can you see what Max and I are talking about?
She acts pi$$y for no reason, takes her anger out on you (b/c she was just waiting for a little slip up, anyway), you go home and try to "reason" with her by explaining why you bought the fries. And, as usual, she blows it out of proportion, b/c she was already mad before any of this happened. You have allowed her to act this way. You have perhaps enabled it by carrying her around on a feather pillow. I suggest dropping the pillow.
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She said you would rather stay in the same house and let our relationship fall apart than move out and potentially save it. I said I don't believe moving out is the answer
She will twist it and will make it sound as if this is all your fault. The more you tell her you don't want her to move out, or that is not the answer, the worse she's going to act. Know why? B/c this woman is running the show, and she knows it. You have given her all the power to rule over you and the MR. She knows you don't want either of you to leave.....so how does she keep the power? By threatening to leave every time the least little thing sets her off! You can count on it, if you don't take charge and stop this type of stuff. The more she thinks you will you put up with her sh't attitude, the more you're going to get showered with it. So, stop putting up with it. Be the king of your own castle. If she wants to get mad and leave, then open the door and show her the way out. Who needs this kind of daily cr@p? If men would stop putting up with it, women would stop dishing it out.
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I said to her this won't be the last fight we have while trying to fix things, that things will probably get worse before they get better but that if we are smart and let cooler heads prevail we'll get through this. No response of course.
You are still trying to be diplomatic and it doesn't work with a WW. You are probably getting this from the MC, and all it's doing is confusing you.
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But this is my issue, every fight completely blows up! We just don't know how to fight fair with each other and I honestly believe she is much worse than me.
SHE doesn't fight fair. And, she's not going to fight fairly. You need to get that fact, now. It is not in a WW's nature to fight fairly. Until she can respect you again and treat you with respect, she is going to act like a brat.
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If the issues continue to bother me then raise them while seeing the MC but at least there is a referee. I'm probably overly sensitive right now too so her little attitude fits set me off. Hopefully she'll at least stop with the attitude.
A referee does not prevent the fight, he just tries to keep them from killing each other. And these little attitude fits, is exactly how she controls you. Change the dynamics by being a man who will not tolerate such behavior.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi - you should start some kind of LBH bootcamp. We can fly in for a week and you can break us down like they do in the Marine's and build us back up again.
Why in heaven's name do you think she's not wayward? Simply b/c you have seen no evidence of an affair? I went back and looked at your post, just on your first page of this thread, and I could see wayward signs all over the place. Did you read the threads on help for the LBH with a WW? Perhaps you don't see her treating you as nasty as some that I described, but you do have a WW. That's why MC is not going to help her right now.
I lost everything I had copied to show you the various things she was doing, so just look at the last post.
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I was wide awake all night last night, heard her come in talk with her girl friend but she never made it upstairs to our room/bed - she slept on the couch on the main floor. I asked her this morning why she slept on the couch and she just said she wanted to (sure she just didn't want to see me if I happened to still be awake). Didn't really surprise me after the fight we had yesterday. Also, I usually get the kids up, fed and off to school in the morning but I figured this was a good morning to tell her to do it after she partied with the girls last night. Somehow the expectation is that I deal with the kids every morning whether I work from home that day or have to go into the office (which makes me late) while she sleeps in. In fact, she sleeps in every day unless there is a reason for her to get up. If I get up she won't get up to help in the morning.
She is spoiled, immature, disrespectful, selfish, threatening to leave, has an attitude of entitlement, has lost all attraction for her H, acting sneaky, changing passcodes on phone, finding things to blame on the H, sleeping on the couch after being out partying, and is getting worse. She is running the show!
If you don't want to think she's wayward (and what H wants to believe that about his wife), then please see yourself as a nice-guy type of H. B/c you are, and you are catering to her. You may not like how she's disrespecting you, but you continue to allow it. Have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy? Please do.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi - you should start some kind of LBH bootcamp. We can fly in for a week and you can break us down like they do in the Marine's and build us back up again.
The WW will never know what hit them!
Thank you, Thornton!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)
I. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.
When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.
When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.
We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).
We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)
PART II Detachment (found around here)
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them. _________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
