It's helpful when someone boils the process down to simple terms for me. Any other major process points please let me know.
Strange, yesterday, when my wife was leaving to an appointment she walked over and kissed me on the cheek. I was surprised if not confused. So, when I went out last night with some friends I returned the kiss on the cheek when I was saying bye - she kissed back. I have no idea what's going on anymore! When I got home from being out last night (around 11pm) she asked how my night was which surprised me (I was at a men's philanthropy meeting for networking, drinks and a movie - Dead Pool - very funny movie). The last while she hasn't asked anything about me or what I'm doing. I told her how it was and how the movie was - there was a bit of nice dialogue back and forth before we both went to bed for the night. She stayed up watching TV while I went to sleep. It was just interesting that she asked me about my night.
My W is currently at her one on one with the marriage counselor so I'll find out how that went when I get home from work - not sure how much she'll say other than perhaps how she found the counselor (this was a concern for us both after our first meeting). Will update more later.
I should add that we were having sex until around Christmas time when the fighting really escalated but nothing since. As for the question about physical appearance, about 1.5 years ago both my wife and I were fed up with how we felt, we were slightly over weight and wanted to make a change so both started working out. Fast forward to now, we both workout every other day and I myself have gone from 210lbs to 183lbs and found out I have muscles in my stomach! lol. Not to toot my own horn but I think I'm a fairly attractive guy especially since losing the pounds and getting into shape. My wife now has a killer body as well!
I believe my wife to mean that she "isn't attracted to me anymore" as a person any more (not so much physically). With all the fighting over the years I guess I can't blame her. Women need more than a hot guy to make them feel attracted to them - they want an emotional connection and that is what I believe is broken right now. I must admit I do try and tease her with my new physique here and there when getting changed in the room or coming out of the shower etc but very subtly. Otherwise, things have been very calm since the first seemingly disastrous MC meeting 2 days ago. If I'm honest, and maybe I'm just overly optimistic, I don't think my wife wants to actually split from me. I think she will do or say anything to try and make a change in our relationship - and I'm learning (from this forum) not to react to often exaggerated statements or in some case complete lies. Let her vent - get it out, acknowledge her feelings and my wrong doing if I actually did something wrong (but not otherwise) and move on.
As for the housework issue, I really stated my case well at the initial MC meeting and worded it in a way that my wife had never heard before. Basically said, the way I look at it we both work full time jobs. Mine is out of the house 9 - 5, hers is in the house 5 hours a week part-time job, the rest of the hours of each day she is to run the house and everything that goes along with that. If we were both to punch in at a time clock, at the end of the week we would probably both have worked the same number of hours, and that's fair. To expect me to come home and then do half of her job isn't fair. Further, if W were to take a full time job then I would then have to take on half the household work to compensate and that would also be fair. W responded you've never said that before - I have but not in such a clear way - MC didn't say anything.
I wish I could find more time in the day to read through all of the links and posts - will do my best! Thanks again everyone - your feedback and comments are really helping an awful lot!
BTW - my wife has from time to time said "i'm not your mother" when referring to the housework etc. I find it insulting and have said so. She said the very same thing at the MC the other day saying "I feel like I'm his mother sometimes". MC didn't say anything and neither did I at the time as I was trying not to interrupt. But, I sometimes over react. What is the best response in this situation. Do I say, it's very disrespectful when you speak to me this way (or simply "don't speak to me that way - it's very disrespectful"). Her response will surely be to validate her reasons for saying it like "I say it because I do everything and you do nothing" etc. Often when I call her out on the way she speaks to me it starts with the word "because" and I tell her she is just validating the insult. As I said, I get overly defensive when insulted by her (I'm a little defensive overall these past years) and is one of the things I'm working on for myself. Just interested to see how others would recommend handling this type of situation.
One last thing, I've been reading through Sandi2's 'Sandi's Refelections' posts and have just made it to page 4 and was glad to see someone ask for the definition of WW. Because, I wasn't sure if my wife fits into this category or not. We are still together, sleep in the same bed but are having issues but we don't do anything disrespectful like flirting or the like. After reading Sandi's explanation of what she means by WW, I can honestly say that my wife does none of this. At worst, disrespectful at times in the way she deals with me about something that upsets her but certainly none of the other nasty things. I don't know what she looks at on her phone as she changed her passcode recently after she snuck over and I watched her take my phone at 2am in the morning into the bathroom and go through my phone and return it to my bedside at which point I called her out on it right there and then - which she just denied in complete idiocy as I watched her do it and she had the phone in her hand - days later she later admitted it - I didn't care that she looked on my phone but the sneaky way that she did it - I told her all she had to do was ask - I haven't changed the passcode on my phone - she can look at it whenever she wants.
Sorry, got off topic. I just want to be sure I'm following advice that is suited to my situation as apparently my wife isn't a WW. She has brought up moving out etc but never seriously - more like a threat - there is a game going on for sure. But, she is the one that said she's no longer attracted to me and that has stuck to me. It has caused me to work on getting some distance though which is a good thing.
W had one on one with MC this morning, not much to report. She said there was a history form to fill out, MC asked about her past our past/present situation etc but the MC didn't say much. MC said she uses the first four sessions to get a sense of how we interact and who we are so that she can then direct us on how to communicate moving forward. Sounds reasonable I suppose. My one on one is early next week and then we are back to couples sessions the following week. Will update on each session as they progress.
BTW - my wife has from time to time said "i'm not your mother" when referring to the housework etc. I find it insulting and have said so. She said the very same thing at the MC the other day saying "I feel like I'm his mother sometimes".
Usually when the wife makes that statement it has to do with her feeling as if she is having to take care of him as though he is another kid. It may be picking up his clothes, cleaning up his messes, choosing which clothes he wears, making sure he takes his medicine, reminding him of appointments, telling him how to do things, etc.
To be fair, a lot of women lump the H in with their kids and treat him as though he were another child, instead of a grown man. She will talk down to him as if he were a child. She'll give him orders or instructions. She has no problem in telling him not to do or say something. She corrects him, even in front of the kids. She'll put food on his plate. Tell him he shouldn't eat certain things and try to take it away from him. Lay his underwear or personal things out every day. Help him get dressed, pack his bag, etc. Things that he is fully capable of doing, but she either feels he won't do it correctly or it makes her feel better in some way. However, if it causes resentment....it needs to stop immediately.
If I were in your shoes, I think I would make sure I did not leave a trail of clothes, shoes, food, papers, empty pop cans, coffee cups, trash, or personal items. Don't ask her where something is (just b/c that's the easiest and quickest way), when you can look for it. For example, "Honey, have you seen my house shoes"? And they are in the same place as they have always been kept. "Is there any ice cream in the freezer"? Go look for yourself. Clean up after yourself. Don't ask her to take something to you, if you are not disabled. If you bring things in from the store, put the items away yourself.
It sounds to me as if she's just complaining about having to do housework. Well, so what? Most women have to do housework. If you were not there, she'd still have to do housework. She needs to either get over it, or hire a person to come in once a week and clean. Where I live, you can find someone to do it pretty reasonably priced, and it might be worth paying if it would take care of the problem. Frankly, I think she's just using that for her excuse b/c she doesn't have anything legitimate, and she knows it.
As for how to respond when she makes the crack about not being your mother, I understand what you are saying, but I really think she's complaining instead of trying to openly disrespect you. However, I can't see her face or hear her tone of voice, so I could be wrong. If you feel disrespected, then it's a strong possibility that's what she's doing. Have you ever point blank asked her what you can do to stop her from feeling like your mother? Or have you asked exactly how she means she feels like your mother?
I think your explanation about the housework was excellent. Apparently, she never thought about the fact you had a fulltime job and that she hers should be keeping the home. Was she spoiled by her parents? I mean, was she never made to do any type of work, especially for another person?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
That's the thing, I don't leave a trail behind me at all - she does! Her clothes are everywhere in our room - mine are in the hamper. I am guilty of asking where something is etc and will just stop that period. Half the time it's right in front of me but she gets pissed when you ask. The kids do it as well and hence the connection I guess. Otherwise, yes, it's the housework and bills for sure but we have cleaning lady come in every two weeks to do the entire house so she never has to do that. Really it's laundry, bills, groceries and cooking are the regular things outside of her part-time work. Kids hockey etc I do most of and I do most of the homework with the kids. No, she wasn't spoiled growing up so I don't know where this comes from - she just doesn't like having to do it I guess. I think she had a future planned where we weren't having to continue to work so hard but that's reality for most of us. I'm going to make sure these issues are dealt with at the MC sessions for sure.
Even just now, on my way out of the office my wife sent me a text to ask me to pickup a pre-cooked chicken on my way home as she was working until 5 (as was I) so assumed she wasn't going to be able to make dinner - no problem - I'll get the chicken. On my way to the grocery I sent a text to my kids saying I'll be home in 30 mins with dinner just to let them know whats going on. I get a text back from my son saying mom wants to know what you are getting? I'm like, what? She asked me to get a chicken so I said the same to him and that I'm also getting wedge fries with it. I get a call from my wife a few minutes later obviously pissy asking why I'm confusing the kids about dinner and that she told me just to get the chicken, not fries and that she was making sides. Took me off guard as usual and I said I didn't know she was making sides but anyway I got wedge fries and I left it at that (I mean what's the big deal anyway). And she hung up in a huff (I know her when she is pissed). These are the kind of things I can't stand. She'll argue I only told you to get a chicken but she didn't tell me she was making sides so how am I supposed to know. I won't bring it up as it's not worth the fight. And anyway, who gives a crap! She hadn't even made the sides yet anyway as I found out when I got home so I don't understand why she gets so irritated by something likes this. This type of thing happens all the time! That's why I hate grocery shopping with her list, if I get something that's a different brand etc she gets mad - it's just not worth the headache so I stopped offering to the grocery runs years ago. Seems like a control thing - not sure.
I should mention the W had a rough upbringing with crazy abusive parents who are now divorced. She's also been is very abusive relationships before meeting me as well. One of my complaints has been that I have always been treated like I can't be trusted (based on her past experiences). And, she has anger issues which has gotten a lot better over the past 5 years - she's been working on it but still these little fits of anger come out over the stupidest things like I mentioned above. This type of things starts all sorts of fights. I should give this example to the MC as well now that I think about it. I'm not good at keeping a running list of these types of things - my W on the other hand has her bad husband list readily available at all times!
I was reading your posts and saw a few common acts from various W that I believe you need to watchout.
The "I am going to sleep in the basement" comment is in fact "you should go and sleep in the basement". The "I need space and will go to my parents" is in fact "I need space and YOU should leave".
I presume that you are the breadwinner at home and if she has held back or changed her mind I found it means she has realized that if she leaves the marital home she will lose a lot of her perks of being your wife and she is not at that stage.
When a spouse changes passcodes without informing (i need to for work security but inform my wife and son) on a pc and especially on a smartphone with whatsapp and sms it is a big red flag. If you notice she is keeping her phone tight close to her even to go to the bathroom for a cr@p then the chances are she is in the middle of an EA. I am not saying that it is 100% but the signs are there.
I also see that when women work out and start attacking the husband, talk about moving the sleeping or living arrangements and belittle the husband they are losing respect for him which means they are beginning to let another one in.
I also found that when women complain about the housework and such it is when they are in an EA and are more interested in the fantasy world offered by the EA than the real and mundane one offered by the husband.
I think your MC sessions will get you nowhere until you get to the root of her attitude and i would voluntarily cancel anymore MC sessions and tell her you see no point in continuing and need to do your own evaluation on your MR and see what will be the next step but you are not ready to continue walking on eggshells at home.
I would also add that it was a nice family home, right now it is a house and you are questioning if it is worthwhile continuing like that and breaking the sanctuary of the clam that it once was.
I would also suggest YOU mention to her that it may be a good idea if she stays at her parents for a while so you can get your space to think things out, concentrate on your exams and see what the next steps will be.
I know many will find this wrong or confusing and it is my opinion and suggestion but you do need to change the dynamics. Start thinking on what you need and stop being so dependant on her whims.
You need to start controlling your emotions and life and not subject your happiness to her tantrums. Kids throw tantrums.
I may get bitch slapped by some members but it is my opinion.
I appreciate your feedback and at the risk of sounding naive, I don't believe my wife is into anyone else...yet anyway. I'm not sure what an EA really is (I know what it stands for) but I assume it's having your head focused out of the marriage (grass is greener on the other side type of thing).
Just to follow-up on my last post, I ended up explaining to my wife why I picked up some fries and that opened up a can of worms - I probably shouldn't have said anything as it really wasn't worth it. There is a time to take a stand and other times over something small to let it slide, especially when you are trying to repair the relationship. I'm just not good at letting things slide anymore. Of course she denied she had any attitude when she called me and it went on from there that I created the problem by bring it up - well that may be true - it wasn't a big problem until I brought it up when I got home. I'm not looking for everyone here to agree with me if I'm doing something stupid, in fact, I'm hoping people will help guide me on when to engage or not in these types of things - I don't think I'm making the best decisions these days. Anyway, we are back to a full on fight and she talking about me moving out again. I told her I'm not going anywhere and she can move out if she feels that strongly about it. She said you would rather stay in the same house and let our relationship fall apart than move out and potentially save it. I said I don't believe moving out is the answer - if you do you can move out. Once it gets to a certain point in the argument with her there is no turning it around - it's a runaway train heading straight downhill. I said to her this won't be the last fight we have while trying to fix things, that things will probably get worse before they get better but that if we are smart and let cooler heads prevail we'll get through this. No response of course. But this is my issue, every fight completely blows up! We just don't know how to fight fair with each other and I honestly believe she is much worse than me. I just think the best course of action for me right now is to not respond to anything no matter how much it bothers me, just let it slide for a while. If the issues continue to bother me then raise them while seeing the MC but at least there is a referee. I'm probably overly sensitive right now too so her little attitude fits set me off. Hopefully she'll at least stop with the attitude.
