When I met my fiance, I was super cool, I was very fit, and a little cocky. I didn't need her. In fact, she would chase me. She would text and call me all day long. I wasn't sure about her and she would chase me like crazy.
Slowly I turned into a needy, weak, submissive man over the years. I changed alot. I became fearful of losing her and I did because I didnt keep her attracted. I tried to fix all her problems so she would "owe" me and not leave me. I would rescue her to prove my worth.
Basically I lived in fear. And fear is the opposite of attractive.
When I met my fiance, I was super cool, I was very fit, and a little cocky. I didn't need her. In fact, she would chase me. She would text and call me all day long. I wasn't sure about her and she would chase me like crazy.
Slowly I turned into a needy, weak, submissive man over the years. I changed alot. I became fearful of losing her and I did because I didnt keep her attracted. I tried to fix all her problems so she would "owe" me and not leave me. I would rescue her to prove my worth.
Basically I lived in fear. And fear is the opposite of attractive.
When you can look at yourself with this level of honesty and understanding, good things are going to happen. Until we recognize our own changes, we can't really expect our spouses to see what they need to change IMO.
Solid stuff Thornton. I'm right there with you. I got to the point where every time we had to have a talk about anything I first would blurt out "just tell me you're not leaving!" Aye aye aye. What a shell of a man I was.
Work the system James. None of this is going to make any sense right now, so follow those that have come before you. Your W is also going to give you a million and one mixed signals so detach from them and do your own thing. There's SO much you can do for yourself irrespective of her and her swings.
PP
M 39 W 36 T5 M3 BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day Served 9/15 D finalized 6/17
Divorce Remedy is a more updated book of Divorce Busting. Could you have it mailed to your work address or a friend's house?
If you will read the links that Cadet posted, it will be very helpful. And not to toot my horn, but if you will read my threads about the mindset of a WW, I think it might give you a clearer picture of where to begin and what needs to be addressed. I have also started another thread about WW's called, Sandi's Reflections. It may help if you read this one first.
Would you say your W gets too aggressive (bully like) toward you, or does she have more of a passive/aggressive type of personality? Does she pretty much call the shots around the house, in the MR, with the kids, and what the family does?
What about you? Do you avoid conflict, and feel that it's easier to just let her have her way? Do you keep your mouth closed and your opinions to yourself, thinking you are keeping the peace? Have you been trained to adjust to whatever mood she may having when you go home from work? Does she work outside of the home?
I don't know if you have any preconceived ideas about DBing, but I can assure you it is not for wimps. Now, there are some wimpy men who try to see it as some soft-soap remedy they can use, instead of rolling up their sleeves and doing the heavy lifting that is ahead of them. DBing is not for sissies.
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To help me get through the next few weeks, is there an outline of the things I should and shouldn't be doing so I don't do something stupid (like breakdown in front of my wife)?
Actually, Sandi's 37 Rules will help give you the do's and don'ts of your actions right now. If you have any questions about any, please don't hesitate to ask for clarification. They are more like bullet points and so not have much details attached.
Okay, so about the only excuse your W is giving you is that she has lost attraction for you. Am I right about that part? Did she zone in on any particular area?
Don't know what your MC may want to have you do. Usually they want to put the couple into pursuit mode, spending more time together, having date nights, etc. They can give contrary advice from what the H will get in DBing and it can cause him confusion. We are here to give you (not your W, just you) tools to use in saving this M. You don't need to show her your toolbox, b/c the tools will be less effective if you tell her.
Don't expect much of anything from your W at the counseling session, except to sound off about you. I don't think she will be there to see what it is that she should do to save the M. She may have more of an attitude that the you are the one broken and needs to be fixed, or everything wrong in the MR is your fault. Some women even use that time to announce that she will be filing for divorce. Whatever happens, do not freak out.
Please stay in close contact with us and read as much as you can in between classes or whatever.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
James, your marriage is off the road and in the ditch. It is going to take a lot of work and time to get it back on the path. You will probably be working on this for the reminder of this year or longer. Right now get your ducks in a row, read the info Cadet offered, pass that test you referenced and stabilize your yourself and the marriage. Be pleasant, positive and non confrontational. Think of this as a cooling off period. Post here if you have to vent and after your test you should have a plan to get you two out of the ditch. A plan to get out is not getting out, it's just a plan. Get some rest because this is the marathon from hell
Thornton nice post, you could have been describing me. Food for thought.
I work full-time and my wife works extremely part-time out of the house 0 - 10 hours a week but on average 5 hours a week. The kids are 11 and 13 and are gone all day so there is a lot of time in the day to do house chores before I get home. I know she doesn't like being responsible for all of it and I should try and take care of dinner more often and help more with the laundry as they are both thank-less jobs.
If the kids are in school and you are working a FT job while she averages maybe five hrs a week.........do not start doing all the housework, laundry, and cooking. This is not the core issue in the MR. If a woman is in love with her H, she's not going to leave him b/c he didn't do enough housework. That is her job. You have a FT job and studying for exams.
Red flags start waving every time a woman tells her H this is the excuse behind the problems in their relationship. Unless she has been extremely spoiled all her life and has never had to do anything she didn't like, then what she is telling you is a bunch of b.s. it is a smoke screen to cover the real issue.
How long has the sex been dwindling? That is usually another big red flag that something is wrong in the MR, but she'll give him some excuse and finally he just kind if gives up.
Okay, about her lack of attraction for you, let me ask if your weight has dropped or gained excessively the past few years? Did she indicate the loss of attraction had to do with your physical appearance?
More than likely, it goes deeper than the outward looks. I talk a little about it in Sandi's Reflections.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well, I played guitar in a band on weekends back then! lol We were so much younger back then and neither of us is really the same as we once were but I get your point. We had our first marriage counseling session today - started ok but quickly deteriorated into examples of fights and both of us stating our perception of what happened etc etc. Didn't go well and the counselor didn't say much other that to observe our interaction. I guess is was good the counselor to see how we behave in real life. My wife and talked in the car on the way home - I was asking her how she was feeling (she was starting to cry) and then she went on about how I change my story with the counselor and she sides with you. The counselor didn't side with anyone (didn't say much at all) but this is the problem, she has her version of our fights and so do I but apparently my version is a lie. I can see that telling my side of the story is going to be tough and met with a lot of interjection from my wife. We each have one on one sessions with the counselor over the next two weeks which will give us the opportunity to air our issues and explain in more detail our background without fear of retaliation from each other. My wife is pretty negative about us right now. Doesn't know if we can pull out of this hole we are in, too much past to deal with, too many bad times between us etc. She is only focused on the negative it seems where I'm a lot of more optimistic that we can pull it together with some help and guidance. I just don't think she will put any effort into working on our relationship, she see's me as all the bad in it, I've done all the wrong etc. But the reality is we both have played our part in the current state of our marriage but she just doesn't ever acknowledge that. If she can't acknowledge her own issues then how can I ever hope for our relationship to recover. Neither of us wants to go back to how things have been over the past few years. I'm starting to wonder if we can ever get back there myself. Then we have the kids to think about - they would be shattered if we split up! Sorry for rambling but my wife is locked up tight emotionally and distant from me and I feel completely helpless to do anything about it. She tends to play the complaining victim mode all of the time and I just don't know how to deal with it.
It's amazing to me how diffent people can perceive things completely differently.
Remember this... Your wife's perception of you is very real to her. As is your perception of her. Both of you are valid.
I think the key is to work on you and the things you did to mess the marriage up. Not point the finger at W. Sure, I bet she's a pain in the a$$. But the only way something will change is if one of you throws your gun down FIRST. Don't keep score and only put in so much effort because your wife doesn't seem to be doing anything.
You'll need to INSPIRE her to want to change. Do this by not interrupting her when she tells the counselor how horrible you are. I know it's hard to sit there and listen to someone verbally annihilate you, but just listen. It will be one of the hardest things you'll ever do.
Everything your W will say about you will sound completely fabricated and exagerrated but they are her FEELINGS. And her feelings are valid.
If you can do this, I think you will set the tone for your therapy. But YOU will need to tip over the first dominoe. It might take her a while to follow suit but that's ok. Let her vent.
I agree with your advice and is what I have been trying to do but I still get sucked into arguments easily although I am getting better.
My wife told me last night that she was thinking about moving into her sisters (who has a basement apartment empty). She said she started thinking about that after we came out of the counselors meeting. She's says she feels heavy around the house with me here so I told her I can move into the basement and she said that won't work because I still know you're here. I also offered to go into the office everyday instead (I work from home 2 days a week) to give her some more space and she said that wouldn't be fair to me. She was upset but the conversation went calm and fine - I guess she could see that I was trying to address her feelings really but could not resolve the issue (I have no where to go - can't afford an apartment etc). She didn't bring up moving to her sisters again. I really don't take it lightly what she says but she does tend to offer up these ideas (she brought up me moving out previously but then admitted she didn't want that to happen) but doesn't really pursue them. I take it for face value (that she means it) but by the way she words things it's like she's trying to find out if I would care if she moved out. If I had said I agree to her moving to her sisters I think we would have ended up in a big fight.
My wife didn't really like the marriage counselor and I admitted that she did seem a little young and didn't have a lot of words of wisdom in our first meeting (not withstanding my asking her). We are probably going to try someone else.
The other thing I'm realizing is that I am severely attached to my wife. What little I've read about detaching has made me realize how much I really am and it's really making this process much harder for me. I really need to get some emotional distance so I can stand back and look at our relationship more clearly. She has clearly already done that.
Just noticed your W left again a few weeks ago - sorry to hear that. Hope you are making some positive progress!
Do not leave the house. Do not leave the marital bedroom. If you work from home normally, don't stop doing that. She is the one that is wanting to leave. If thats what she wants, then she can leave. You have to detach and realize that you have NO control over her. You need to focus on YOU and YOUR issues. That is what the DB process is really about; working on YOUR issues. She will either notice and appreciate the better person you are becoming or she may not. But you don't have any control over that. Focus on you right now. Be the best James you can be.
Me: 48 y/o W: 47 y/o Together: > 20 yrs BD: Dec '15, then S 2nd BD: Mar '16, then I filed for D April '16: started piecing
Does it seem like no matter what you say or do that nothing seems to help? Stick with the DB strategies. They may seem counter intuitive, but I can assure you that you will feel stronger and in more control.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
