Sandi's Reflections

[sandi2]

Thank you, Cadet, for the following post. I agree 100% about the Vietnam post war generation and being raised by mothers. Those mothers of that era were influenced by the women's liberation movement and other rebellious things going on our country.

Why are men NICE GUYS?

Answer:
We are raised mostly by our mothers, have teachers who are mostly woman, may have fears of abandonment, possibly some sort of shame that we are some how responsible for being abandoned.
We were raised in the post Vietnam war era/ World War 2 parents.

I know in my case my father was a "NICE GUY" who was raised by his mother.
So much of what I learned to be a male came from my nice guy father.
So he was a conflict avoidant,co-dependent, enabling personality, so of course was I.
Of course as stated above - mothers and teachers also have some responsibility in this trait.

So I agree that nearly everyone on these boards can fall into some category here.
And of course another question is how do we keep our children and grand children from falling into the same trap?

Anyways great posts sandi2, thanks for all you do.
I will likely link this thread in with your others so it can be used as a resource in the future along with the others.

Just in case anyone wonders, I like nice guys. Everyone likes them. I married a nice guy. It's just that after I married him, then I saw the down side of him being the nice-guy "type". My father was nothing like the nice-guy. He was a WWII vet and married to a very spunky lady who happen to be my mother. Can you imagine what I could do with a quiet, soft-spoken, gentle, easy-going, likable, nice guy? He thought he was marrying a sweet, outgoing girl that was the love of his life. He soon discovered she wasn't so sweet, and her attractiveness was fading. Unfortunately, he didn't understand that I needed him to be assertive, and to speak up, and stand up to me. I, apparently, inherited my mother's spunkiness. I needed him to call me out when I didn't treat him well and was disrespectful. I needed him to put me in my place, so to speak. Instead, he grew more & more passive.

I wish I knew the answer to how to raise our sons not to be the same passive type of man. To teach him not to be afraid to stand up to his wife and tell her "no" sometimes. I use to say if I ever had a son that I was going to teach him how to treat a lady. I assumed his father would teach him other aspects of it, but oh well. We did have a son. And I taught him how to treat a lady, alright. All the females thought he was the sweetest thing since sugar. He didn't have a lot of girlfriends, b/c they would usually give him the line, "I love you like a brother". Eventually, he married a sweet girl who I think truly loved him. I never saw the passivity in my son that I saw in his dad. He was very good to his little wife, and they seemed happy for a long time. Then she started complaining about him not doing enough to help her around the house. Which turns out was just a smoke screen for the real issue. He would not tell her, "No". I think she pretty much did whatever she wanted and he could like it or lump it. Over time, the attraction for him faded and she became dissatisfied and started an affair. So, I think I have a son who has nice-guy traits. . I really did not detect it before he married. How much his dad's passivity and conflict avoidance, or my teaching him to treat women special affected him, IDK.

My H will always have some of his nice-guy traits which will always drive me crazy, but let me tell you something else to that story. He doesn't seem to have any problems standing up to me any more! Of course, ever since my A, I have not given him quite as much to confront me about. I watch myself and how I speak and interact with him...especially in front of others. Human nature being what it is, it's good that he no longer allows me to treat him disrespectfully. So, people can learn to change. Both of us are proof of it.