Definitely think that saying sorry no ticket or you is the right thing. The way a WW is described really "nails" it and I need to let her go until she goes through withdrawal from this OM/EA in her fantasy world.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of your therapist right about now. If "it is one of the best things you could read right now", then they would know that your wife is not ready for a letter. You can do all the apologizing later on when your W would make a commitment back to the marriage.
Internet - cheeseless, controlling tunnel. You even stated yourself she will find a way around it. They always do.
LRT - Not likely going to be an option considering kids are in the home and she is there while you work. You WILL have interaction. Instead, focus on being distant and detached.
Money - Does she work? Why doesn't she? What specifically do you pay for?
Valentine's - Leave it. Don't push or pursue with trying to make something happen.
You, sir, are trying to push a square peg into a round hole. Let's refocus here. Time for some homework!!
Activity 1: What are you goals? They need to focused on you and not things like "Get her to hug me once per week." Instead, "I will try and validate my W at least once per day."
Activity 2: List your 180s. Think of the complaints she has given about specific characteristics of you. These could be things such as poor anger management to spending too much time working to not spending enough time with the kids to never folding laundry.
Post the answers here.
I get that you are hurting, baffled, and probably a bit frustrated. Your M seems to be going down the drain. Time to grab those bootstraps and get busy.
M: 8.5 T:10 Me:37 W:34 S:6
Retrouvaille and W moves back- 7/31/15 Piecing - 7/4/15 to present
Money - Does she work? Why doesn't she? What specifically do you pay for?
REALLY interested on everyone's thoughts about the finances
--W wanted to be a stay @ home mom and i supported that. W is now putting all her eggs in one basket applying for a job she is no where near qualified for. Should I encourage W to get any job she can find in the interim? Don't want to be controlling so I am being positive and encouraging when she brings it up and letting her choose her path. i guess the encouraging behavior is a 180, because W thinks I didn't want her to have a job, even though stay @ home mom was her idea. If it is a bill I pay it, mostly family stuff, groceries, car, phone, insurance, food, liquor store, everything. W has had Dinner a few times 2-3 with her close girlfriends and ...I pay that too. Probably just sitting around encouraging W to leave me knowing them. They probably just validate her unhappiness and honestly want her to be happy, but they are not offering words of encouragement for our marriage, that I feel confident of.
Activity 1: What are you goals? They need to focused on you and not things like "Get her to hug me once per week." Instead, "I will try and validate my W at least once per day."
Activity 2: List your 180s. Think of the complaints she has given about specific characteristics of you. These could be things such as poor anger management to spending too much time working to not spending enough time with the kids to never folding laundry.
Hope i did this quote right.
She doesn't really talk to me about anything. i guess the anger comes later? I feel like she is just running away.
Activity 1:(read my R goals from when i was 2 that chapter and they are ALL W will do this/ W will move home by..) Need to regroup
1) I will try to distance and detach by not calling or texting for one week unless absolutely necessary for something about kids.
2) I will stop spying on game
3) I will validate if/when given the chance, for anything (tough because she doesn't talk)
4) I will finish DR this weekend
Activity 2: (180's)
1)to not be jealous or controlling. I will not and have not been asking questions about how she spends her time, what she did, why she bought something etc. No inquires into her actions
2)W thinks I am a hoarder (W is just\st as bad IHMO, but that doesn't matter now)Get the house cleaned and organized. I am getting rid of a bunch of stuff/clutter that annoyed her
3)Physical fitness - Joined a gym and am working with a trainer. I want to be able to rock a tank top...
4)not pursing - always have in the past and was always the first to apologize. Honestly can think of a time she apologized in 13 years.
I feel like these are kind of weak. Maybe once i finish DR I can readdress.
I'm going to tell you that I have an issue with the money. Keep in mind this is not telling you what to do, but my own opinion. You are enabling her with the money at this point. To let you know I understand where you are, I paid for our joint car insurance and cell phone bills even after W moved out. However, it was only to ensure I could maintain contact with S6 and that he was in an insured car. But after I filed I began to cut those bills off as well.
In your case she left of her own will and moved to where her basic necessities are provided for. Paying for her going out with her friends is not going to draw her closer. Welcome to being Plan B that still pays for her EA. My opinion would be to determine what is absolutely minimum needed to give to her for the sake of your children, and then the rest is up to her. That's what divorce looks like! Good place to put a boundary.
If a 180 is to encourage her to go after that job, then I would. KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) and validate. Not much more beyond that or you are pursuing. On the other hand, going out of your way to find other jobs for her is like fixing it AND enabling her. Let her experience the consequences of reaching beyond her skillset and doing things on her own.
Goals I like these as a start. They are more centered on you and what you can control, which is???
180s 1. Very nice with good examples. 2. I will keep the house organized and clean. -Do this for yourself. I have not yet met a woman that likes a messy/dirty man. Drop the W reference. 3. Grats! Make your muscles hurt and rock that tank top! -Added benefit: Endorphin release. Love those things. 4. I will not pursue. -In your case, what does that specifically look like?
You registered not too long ago and are just now beginning your first steps. Gotta get over the shock and clear your head before truly making headway (I beat my head against a wall for quite a while). These are a great start, and we'll keep adding them as you go. Focus on what is immediately achievable and build from there.
M: 8.5 T:10 Me:37 W:34 S:6
Retrouvaille and W moves back- 7/31/15 Piecing - 7/4/15 to present
I'm going to tell you that I have an issue with the money. Keep in mind this is not telling you what to do, but my own opinion.
In your case she left of her own will and moved to where her basic necessities are provided for. Paying for her going out with her friends is not going to draw her closer. Welcome to being Plan B that still pays for her EA. My opinion would be to determine what is absolutely minimum needed to give to her for the sake of your children, and then the rest is up to her.
My thoughts would be to keep the house filled with groceries and continue to make car payment and insurance. I am thinking about disconnecting her cell and getting her a cheap pre-paid (flip phone without the browsers and apps that she uses to communicate with OM. When she needs gas, I can fill the car up. My only concern is that this will expedite the seperation or divorce process so she can get her court ordered $$. I make 6 figures so this would be significantly more than what she is getting/using now.
If a 180 is to encourage her to go after that job, then I would. KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) and validate. Not much more beyond that or you are pursuing. On the other hand, going out of your way to find other jobs for her is like fixing it AND enabling her. Let her experience the consequences of reaching beyond her skillset and doing things on her own. Point taken. I will not bring it up, offer suggestions and validate her when she does mention, or show empathy when she doesn't.
Goals I like these as a start. They are more centered on you and what you can control, which is??? Myself and my actions. I cannot control her.
180s 1. Very nice with good examples. 2. I will keep the house organized and clean. -Do this for yourself. I have not yet met a woman that likes a messy/dirty man. Drop the W reference. 3. Grats! Make your muscles hurt and rock that tank top! -Added benefit: Endorphin release. Love those things. 4. I will not pursue. -In your case, what does that specifically look like? My means of pursuit have just been simple things like asking her to come to church with me and children or go to activities that I do with kids on weekend. She always has an excuse so I'm not going to do it anymore. I have not asked her to work on our marriage or MC or really anything after the first few days.
You registered not too long ago and are just now beginning your first steps. Gotta get over the shock and clear your head before truly making headway (I beat my head against a wall for quite a while). These are a great start, and we'll keep adding them as you go. Focus on what is immediately achievable and build from there.
So, I think that I am slowly entering the anger stage. I have found another site similar to this and it has poisoned me. The posts and recommendations are in stark contrast to this site and has my brain running in circles. I have prayed on it and this method of DR'ing is the more godly approach with patience, sympathy, understanding and hope. The other site is prideful, recommends vengeance, and extremely harsh ways of confrontation and ultimatums. I heard her bring up to someone that I was "going out" on weekends but adamantly followed up with she didn't care at all. I feel like my GAL'ing might be working and that she was just trying to convince herself or brush it off by saying she didn't care. If she didn't care why would she bring it up?
She hasn't brought up D, custody, logistics etc. in two weeks and we have little to no actual contact/discussions. She is in love with this online creep and he is her sole thought, focus etc. She spends all day and night playing with, talking to etc. I want to / need to implement some type of boundaries and tough love to show her I will not tolerate this and am I NOT ok with the status quo as it is today or being Plan B as Squiggy put it. I see now that is what I am, except I don't even think I am plan B but rather just her STBXH in her mind. Struggling to figure out how to do this. I think that removing my support for her financially is the only route at this point, but know it is only going to expedite things with papers. I guess that is probably down the road at some point anyways though.
I am sad at the thought of our kids growing up in a broken home and the other realities that come from divorce, but I am honestly am starting to not care if she does serve me. I know that I have no control over her choices. I don't feel the same way when I look @ her anymore, I see physical faults (wrinkles, chubbiness, etc) and not the "rose colored glasses" that I had previously. It is also hard for me to remember the good times we shared. I feel like there just weren't that many. It has always been about her and what she wants with little compromise. I see her as a selfish, immature person. IS THIS NORMAL? Am I coming out of denial and into the anger stage? I want to keep fighting but wonder if these recent events just highlight the type of person she really is and her selfishness.
Any recommendations on links or books or something to read to refocus myself and remind myself what I am fighting for?
Hearing about your W and her role-playing game, really concerns me. B/c the affairs we read about here on the board are based on so much fantasy, and with your W being so heavily submerged in this game, it makes her very vulnerable to other bad things. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that these chat rooms, or whatever type of method is used to meet people over the Internet is an opportunity for many people to expand their fantasies even more. The sad part is that so many SAHM's can start playing these games out of boredom or whatever, and first thing you know, they are in an EA or Internet affair. I fell into the same thing. Although, I was not a young SAHM, it all started with playing games and chatting (long, long story). Anyway, you have a very legit reason to be concerned about your M and your family.
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She even has dinner cooked when I get home (something she rarely did before) but she rushes right out the door as soon as I get there.
You mean she leaves the house, or goes to play the game?
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I only want her to care about our marriage and show me she values it and wants to fix.
It is normal for you to want those things from her, however, her moral compass is out of order at the moment. I don't think she is going to drop what she's doing to turn back to the life she led before this role-playing started. She is highly addicted now, and it will be just like dealing with a drug addict. You no longer can trust her. You no longer can believe what she tells you.
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She says she can't wait for me to get better and that I don't get her.
What does she mean by you getting better?
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She is not sorry and said she will never apologize.
A true sign of waywardness. She's probably going to have to hit rock bottom, hard, before she decides to change. When they have this attitude, they don't care that it's wrong....they like it and that's all that matters to them.
Since she is not living with you, I would encourage you to first separate and protect your banking accounts. Then cancel the Internet and her phone. Will you have a way to still come and post? As long as you finance the ways she's conducting her affair, she'll continue to do it. It may not stop her, but you don't have to pay for it.
The next thing is to start living as though you are separated. I say "yes" to the LRT. Everyone may not agree with me, but I don't agree with some others about what is "going dark". The LRT doesn't mean you can't handle matters about the kids. If you are ever going to do it, I'd think it would be now. The longer you enable her...the longer she will stay in this terrible fantasy of hers, and probably make some dangerous decisions about meeting other men in person. I hope not, but just as it takes more & more of the drug to have the effect she craves, so will this online activity.
Do not do things together as a family, while she is continuing to engage in the online activity/affair with OM. That is cake eating. You enable her by giving her the best of both worlds.
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My new therapist said I should put the ball in her court and ask her if it was ok to get her something or if she wanted to have dinner.
No, you are not dating her. You aren't even reconciling. Apparently, your therapist has no clue about waywards. She has to stop doing what she's doing before you are available to take her anywhere as a family or just the two of you.
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So, I think that I am slowly entering the anger stage. I have found another site similar to this and it has poisoned me. The posts and recommendations are in stark contrast to this site and has my brain running in circles. I have prayed on it and this method of DR'ing is the more godly approach with patience, sympathy, understanding and hope. The other site is prideful, recommends vengeance, and extremely harsh ways of confrontation and ultimatums.
I've seen a couple of sites like that too. I think there's a time for a tougher side of love, but all I saw was people filled with bitterness and almost hatred. I didn't linger. Anyway, glad you found your way here.
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I heard her bring up to someone that I was "going out" on weekends but adamantly followed up with she didn't care at all. I feel like my GAL'ing might be working and that she was just trying to convince herself or brush it off by saying she didn't care. If she didn't care why would she bring it up?
I'm sure she does.
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I am sad at the thought of our kids growing up in a broken home and the other realities that come from divorce, but I am honestly am starting to not care if she does serve me. I know that I have no control over her choices. I don't feel the same way when I look @ her anymore, I see physical faults (wrinkles, chubbiness, etc) and not the "rose colored glasses" that I had previously. It is also hard for me to remember the good times we shared. I feel like there just weren't that many. It has always been about her and what she wants with little compromise. I see her as a selfish, immature person. IS THIS NORMAL? Am I coming out of denial and into the anger stage? I want to keep fighting but wonder if these recent events just highlight the type of person she really is and her selfishness.
It seems to be pretty common for the LBS to go through these stages. I would be concerned if a man didn't get angry. However, your feelings will go up & down, over & around again.
As for recommending books, there is a free download of No More Mr. Nice Guy, and I think you definitely need to read it. It's pretty short. You may also want to read Hold on to your N.U.T.S.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Interested to learn more about your online experience and events/resolution as there is not much I have found on it here. Are there any threads?
You mean she leaves the house, or goes to play the game?
Runs out the door as fast as she can
What does she mean by you getting better?
To work through the jealousy and trust issues I had. Although, starting to wonder about some of the past events and her explanations (FB related)
No, you are not dating her. You aren't even reconciling. Apparently, your therapist has no clue about waywards. She has to stop doing what she's doing before you are available to take her anywhere as a family or just the two of you.
Again, therapist recommended to try to engage her with family activities and just have a good time together. I know W thinks I am a great father. I do have to agree with you on this, and I will make sure to post all over social media what an awesome time we are having without her
your feelings will go up & down, over & around again. I know I have read that before but always nice to remind and have affirmation it is normal
So, really don't understand the complete lack of emotions from W. She seems to be fine with this state of limbo and is in positive mood for the most part when I see her, but we don't talk about anything R related. Is this a normal stage for WW? Hard to validate when I do not get the chance. At first there were little signs that she cared IMHO, she would do little things around the house and sometimes even stuff for me. Now she doesn't really do anything. I am really thinking that I need to show some tough love. I am thinking about telling her the below. I would really appreciate any advice or as Squiggy says a 2x4 to the head.
W,
I do want this M to be restored and this is not what I wanted. I however; can no longer facilitate in any way your R with OM. There will no longer be internet access for you to use in this house ( I will get a 4G hotspot so I can still work from home when needed and post here, but she won't be aware of that). I will also be cancelling your cell phone as this is a major means of your communication with OM. Since you have chosen not to live here and be a part of this family, I you will also need you to remove the remainder of your belongings from MH. I will be putting S6 in school and S4 daycare during the day, so you will no longer need to be in MH during the day. This will allow you the time necessary to find a job and provide for yourself as I will no longer be paying for your personal needs. Due to your addiction to game and 15+ hour days of gaming including into early mornings and sleep schedule, the kids will remain here with me as custodian and I will provide for their needs. You will have time with them wed. after school until 8 pm and every other weekend they will stay with you.
I doubt this will end her R with OM or addiction to game and know that this will probably expedite papers (S or D ) tbd, but I think that I need to set this boundary and assert myself as a M to her (another 180). It hasn't even been two months since S, but she is increasing her time and interactions with OM at an exponential rate since S. She has even spoken to him on speaker phone with playing in game during day in front of our children and tells him she loves him. This helped me get past denial and I find completely unexceptable for her to lay in our MRB and talk with this creep.
I don't think the custody stuff will go over very well, but I know it is what is best for the kids as they sleep on an air mattress when W/ her and they need stability in there life. If it comes down to it, I would rather spend all the $$ in savings and 401K even if I lose just so she has to spend her 1/2. I am young, in top 5%55 tax bracket and will be fine even with support payments. To be honest, I think I will have more $$ to spend on myself not having to finance her passions any longer.
I also now have the OM name and phone number, and have found him on FB (young and single unfortunately). I want to confront this guy, I would love thoughts on this. Probably a complete waste of time and something tells me not constructive but I really really want to. Good thing I stopped drinking recently or I probably would have already. I have some choice words for him..something along the lines of, I now know who you are -insert full name- and you are no longer just some character in a game. If you don't disappear there will be repercussions. I wouldn't mind spending some cash on an attorney (unfortunately not an alienation of affection state) to come up with some civil suits just to make his life hell. i know i wouldn't win, but the dude works at a freaking gas station so it would drain him financially. Spiteful maybe, gratifying absolutely. When you mess with a mans family he has nothing left to lose ( i know this is really on her and not him).
Unfortunately the counselor we were seeing individually before starting couples therapy told her I would never change and that she deserved to be with someone who made her happy (at least that what she took from it)
That's what she took from it! Did you hear the counselor say that? This sounds like typical WAW hogwash. Think about it. It certainly suits her agenda. No responsible LMHC would ever say that.
Me: 39 W: 38 T-18yrs M-13yrs 2 Girls: 10 & 3 EA BD 5/24/15 Separate Bedrooms 6/12/15 PA BD 7/3/15 Separate Residence 8/8/15