zeus great view of why he may think she made him leave.
I know my w thinks i made this happen.
My only issue is we are responsible for taking action for ourselves. Ad if we think our only action is to quit and run, well that isn't right in my eyes on relationships.
M 37 W 34
T 12 M 8 D 7 S 4
Need break 4/12/15 W no ring 7/7/15
Separate room 4/12/15 Separate living suggested 8/15 W moved out 11/1/15
Otw...that is a brilliant response. It is accurate and is worded respectfully Thank you.
Zues... We do not have professional help. I had asked husband about counseling in beginning and he declined. This would probably not be the case now. He would be open to at least family counseling for kids, and MC counseling if we agree to pursue R.
I had talked with attorney and was advised to enter litigation and not to mediate because he felt My situation had been set up to put me at disadvantage. He also said he felt like I would be walked over in mediation..or something like that. he did say if there was any chance of reconciliation to get MC because there would be no chance once this went through the courts. That it will get ugly. He felt like the case was very easy. (I don't believe he is an attorney that really needs my business either) where I live legal fees are prorated. So husband I am sure does not want to go this route. Husband would be concerned over my current salary for this reason as well.
I am hoping he wants reconciliation. That is my desire and it's very known.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
I had talked with attorney and was advised to enter litigation and not to mediate because he felt My situation had been set up to put me at disadvantage. He also said he felt like I would be walked over in mediation..or something like that. he did say if there was any chance of reconciliation to get MC because there would be no chance once this went through the courts. That it will get ugly.
This just sounds gross. This isn't my experience at ALL.
There are many factors in a divorce. Thinking the situation has been staged is just paranoid and adversarial. Oh, I'm sure H has those thoughts, just as you have thoughts about not wanting to do anything to damage your situation in a way that will hurt your case. But that's a far cry from 'set up'.
Mediation is designed to make sure both people have a voice. I know it was the first time I felt heard while XW was bulldozing me and completely delusional. I am confused as to why the mediator wouldn't be able to help. I agree about avoiding court, but I know that when I was done with my first mediation session XW texted me saying thanks, and how relieved she was we were able to work so well together.
Anyway JH, doesn't matter. I'd talk to your DB coach and see what they thought the best way to enlist more help was, and how to voice that to H. To me that's the top priority.
PS- one communication style that worked well for me and XW post BD was EMAIL. It worked for so many reasons. We both had equal voice time, and tone. We both got to read and reread what the other person was saying in a non-escalated situation. We both got to script our responses. It avoided emotional reactions. All in all, it was the best we'd ever communicated. It is really tragic that it didn't get discovered until after BD. Have you thought about trying to talk it out through email? You could literally post emails here and get advice, or run them by DB coach. This was HUGE for me! Just wanted to share.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
ok, so knowing you did not actually ask him to leave that makes this boundary fairly easy.
You need to state the next time that he says this something along the lines of " i need to make something clear, i never asked or forced you to leave. I understand you may have felt you had no choice, and i know that must have been difficult, but I did not make you leave or ask you to. Please do not represent that to me or others.
I know a boundary has a consequence, but I am not sure what consequence you connect to that.
I could be off, but i have seen it come a few times on your thread so I know it bothers you
I just have one question- why does this matter? Is this a battle we need to pick? Does this bring you closer to R or help the children? Or is being right more important?
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I am not a good Dber because I've never had to DB. Rather simple really. I never had a chance with Mr Ex. All my DBing has been towards myself and that seems like a crazy notion but all the same true. I guess my approach to being here is that I am good at waving the flag, I am good support. I add a piece here or there when I see someone struggling. But I don't have the courage or bravery it takes to really help someone through this. I don't have the courage to call someone out on their stuff. Stuff I can see getting in the way. I am coward Julie. I have been with you.
So I am soooooo happy that you have Zues. And now you have found Swiggy.
You have all the bases covered now to DB the sh*t out of this sitch.
I feel like Squiggy will now support you through the more therapuetic steps of this journey with H. I am glad. My gut tells me you are ready.
You are incredibly responsive to men with high emotional intelligence and firm logical arguments Julie. that has been apparent for a long time. You are incredibly open to what they provide you. It seems to me that the way they engage you makes you so open to seeing things differently. It's a quality you are literally begging your H to have everytime you interact with him.
I wonder what it is about H and being in relationship to him that stops your from being so open. Sure there is the intimate nature of the relationship and we always struggle for asking for what we need from someone we are emotionally invested in. But there is something else here for what my opinion is worth.
What is the Zues and Squiggy do that opens you up, that makes you open to being critiqued, that allows you to express yourself with little to no anger. That allows you to communicate from a place I feel, rather than I think. Is it because they lead and you are happy to follow or is it something else they do that makes you feel safe.
You have referenced logical thinking and robust discussion as being innately something you need. Is this what they provide you.
To note: I think H has the ability to meet this need. And I don't think he is having an affair either. I hope to be proven right.
Julie, I don't have the eloquancy or intellectual nouse to describe what either of these two gorgeous men Zues and Squiggy can. But listen to what they have to say. I have not missed a post on your threads in the last couple of months. There is nothing that either Zues or now Squiggy have said to you in the last 24-48 hours that I haven't been thinking and feeling about your sitch.
You are getting so close to where you need to be. And frankly I know it scares the bejeezes out of you.
There is also something I do know, you being emotionally vulnerable is going to change everything.
As I always say just because I don't post doesn't mean I don't care or not supporting you. I just think other's are giving you everything you need.
I absolutely love your insight. You actually offer much logical thinking and robust conversation.
LOL. Yes. I am comfortable with logical men because I grew up surrounded by boys! Boys that are very logical and emotionally intelligent and philisophical and best of all FUNNY. I feel like I can trust and grasp the honesty and directness of men who have no ulterior motives. ( My female friends are more like men in female bodies). They don't sugar coat and are not concerned with being liked. I actually appreciate that. IRL I would be very comfortable with the Larry David Esque type of conversation. Where you are called out and openly admit to some pretty morally corrupt thoughts and behaviors. I would trust it because it's honest.
I think I grasp on to what zues says because he is basically the only person that really stood up for my husband (and other husbands as well). When I tell my story i come across as this sweet, innocent single mom who was left by her husband and it is easy to side with me. Husband did do a lot of crappy things. Perhaps zues offers me an opinion that is easy for me to accept because deep down its what I want to hear.... That husband is not a bad guy. He is not an abuser or cheater. We don't have to divorce.
I do wish my husband was able to communicate with me better. He is a "mans man" and does not like to socially engage much. He likes to work on things. He is a logical thinker, but for some reason struggles to communicate. I had no problems telling him my needs (probably did this too much) he cannot explain what he is thinking or tell me how he feels but then seems angry when I question and don't know. I want him to just be direct with me.
I know I come across as compulsive but you don't know how much it relieves me to hear that you do not think my husband is having an affair.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
[quote=Zues126I think H feels powerless because he can't change you and get you to be the partner he feels he needs (right or wrong), he is at the mercy of the courts as to his future life, ultimately he is faced with either being in a marriage where he feels unfulfilled and undermined, or he is single again only without the freedom and youth he once had and instead with chains around him forcing him to work hard for the rest of his life for a family he feels evicted from. [/quote]
This is very insightful. What a horrible,trapped feeling to have. I think that must be what my H is feeling right now...how he views his choices. And, right now, he is choosing the latter because it seems to "give him the better chance at happiness down the line" (his actual words). Can we convince them through our actions otherwise?
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
ok, so knowing you did not actually ask him to leave that makes this boundary fairly easy.
You need to state the next time that he says this something along the lines of " i need to make something clear, i never asked or forced you to leave. I understand you may have felt you had no choice, and i know that must have been difficult, but I did not make you leave or ask you to. Please do not represent that to me or others.
I know a boundary has a consequence, but I am not sure what consequence you connect to that.
I could be off, but i have seen it come a few times on your thread so I know it bothers you
I just have one question- why does this matter? Is this a battle we need to pick? Does this bring you closer to R or help the children? Or is being right more important?
I would say the reason for this is not to get the relationship back. I do not think this will neither bring back or push further away. What it will do is set that she will not accept being made a villain and it is a truth dart about him making decisions on his own.
again, I dont have all the answers as I do not believe any of us do, but i see this as a hot button that keeps coming up for Julie and hopefully once addressing it she can move on from it.
M 37 W 34
T 12 M 8 D 7 S 4
Need break 4/12/15 W no ring 7/7/15
Separate room 4/12/15 Separate living suggested 8/15 W moved out 11/1/15
But I don't have the courage or bravery it takes to really help someone through this. I don't have the courage to call someone out on their stuff. Stuff I can see getting in the way. I am coward Julie. I have been with you.
I'm still catching up on Julie's story, but I wanted to address this. I call BS on this, Jelly. Everywhere I see you posting, you have great words and advice you are giving to everyone. You show unconditional support to those here on the board. Everyone seems to respect you and value your thoughts and opinions. Sounds like you have a 180 to work on
Maybe the only difference is that us guys don't know how to keep our mouths shut when we should and want to fix everything... (Deep, I know!)
M: 8.5 T:10 Me:37 W:34 S:6
Retrouvaille and W moves back- 7/31/15 Piecing - 7/4/15 to present
Julie, have you sought different legal advice? This is one of the things that I regretted not doing. Find a lawyer that is fair but will not hesitate to fight for your interest. Mine didn't really.
Financially, going the mediation route was a major failure for me and by the time we got there, I was so exhausted by the ex's lies and manipulation that I just gave in. I didnt hold him accountable for his promises.
In hindsight, I should have compartmentalised the R from the D. Settle the D issues first. Once I can be assured that kid and I would be financially provided for in a fair manner, I could then R without the fear that the ex was using R to get out of his financial obligations. It's near my bedtime now and I hope I am making sense.
This is what 25yearsmlc posted in one of her recent posts. She herself is a L but still she made sure that she got sound legal advice from another L to get fair and unbiased advice. Once she knew that she and her children would be fine whether or not she D, she would be fine. FYI, she is one of the successes here.
With the ex, while we were trying to R, there was the suspicion both ways that we were trying to take advantage of each other. When I tried to talk to the ex about the D terms, we always ended up quarrelling and hating each other. He saw me as only interested in the financial aspect and didn't understand my fear of not having a house for kid and myself.
Like your H, the xh Has always been very well-provided and until he married me, had never had to worry about jobs and finances. His parents provided for everything. My working/not working has always been a big issue for him and his mother. He couldn't cope with having a family because he's never had responsibilities. Apparently, I ruined happily ever after for him. I should stop before I get called out for making him out to be a monster. But nowadays I really do feel that way. :p
I feel for you cuz Our Hs are very similar.
So maybe like what Zues has suggested, get good experts who will think for you. Especially a good L. And then you should concentrate on your R, leaving any dirty work to your L. Is it possible to agree not to talk about D terms with your H?
Get your bases covered and you would stop feeling so vulnerable. Then work your a$$ off at R.
Rooting for you.
You can call me Dory/ Grl.
As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"
It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
