WW hope to reconcile

[Squiggy]

shreeve - Easy enough. Click on anyone's name and then go to View posts. From there click on Topics Created, and you should be able to find their initial posts.

JulieH - I'd love to see your source so I can get it in context. When I hear Mediation, I think of it in legal terms between two parties that are divorcing. Reconciliation is more about coming together and agreeing to work on the MR. I'll go into length here as I see it, because it is beneficial to all. That being said...

There are going to be compromises and "demands". The difference between your average person and us DBers is that our "demands" are actually Boundaries. A healthy, well-laid boundary is not an ultimatum, per se, but a statement of what you will and will not do. That's why we are coached and learn to only set truly important boundaries (infidelity, transparency, physical touch, abuse (P,S,E, and drug/alcohol, to give examples). Wonka has an amazing thread on boundaries that you can find in Cadet's initial list of homework. I took the crash course on boundaries with her's and Starsky's help.

Another way to think of it is addressing the issues of the previous marriage (the old marriage is dead, remember?) in a healthy way. Our spouses did leave for good reasons, despite the way they did it (e.g. infidelity as a result of no connection or being taken for granted - I can go on all day about reframing). Both parties need to change and address those issues. Us DBers do it through our 180s and GAL. As a couple we do this through communication, validation, hearing each other out, and compromising.

In my case, since you asked, yes. Her and I both had a list for each other, BUT we worked really hard to make it reasonable and achievable. Or, as I like to think of it, the minimum necessary to allow our M to be reforged. I required transparency (boundary), no more infidelity (boundary), return home (because of S6), and Retrouvaille. I was asked to listen, stop trying to fix unless asked, and spend more time with my family.

Let me know if you need more of an explanation or have more questions. I am far from a guru in DBing, but I will help as much as possible.

[JulieH]

Squiggly,

I will try to find the post. It was a really insightful one.

Would returning back to work full time be a request to be put on a list as a necessary step for working on a marriage?

In jims case, is quitting smoking a fair request?

When does it become a way of controlling someone to do what they want. Kind of like "I'm not happy. I'm gonna leave. Then so they will do things my way I come back only if they agree to my terms".

I totally understand that fidelity, and transparency are necessary when there was an affair

[Squiggy]

Let me preface my answer by stating that these are my opinions only. You take what you want from them.

Would returning back to work full time be a request to be put on a list as a necessary step for working on a marriage?

In jims case, is quitting smoking a fair request?

Simply put, you are the one to determine that answer. Are you willing to go along with it? Is it something that you are completely against? What are your real, underlying reasons for saying no? Is it something you are willing to compromise, without compromising yourself, to save your marriage? Only you can answer that.

The flip side to this is whether or not the listed problems had anything to do with the breakdown of the marriage. Did Jim's smoking cause a significant amount of conflict or health issues? Is it a core issue or a grab for something they want? Does it compromise who you fundamentally are? Is it a reasonable request? Is it respectful? Does it break a stated boundary? These are the type of things to look for when determining whether or not the request is controlling.

What are YOU willing to do to save your marriage?

[JulieH]

Thanks squiggy!

[Vanilla]

I have read your threads Jim.

I used to foster children with H1 and have never adopted.

I confess to a great deal of concern about your W, and until I examined some of my notes I was unsure why. I recollect fostering two children from a family of 6. The oldest two. The mother had a pathology where she only wanted to look after babies and children to school age. When the children reached five or six years old she 'discarded' them, she was prosecuted for neglect of her older children. Then she had another baby.

This woman went on to have five more children with two different fathers. She was only really interested in the children under 4. She once told me babies were 'cute and loveable'. She only visited her children in foster care twice in six months, they were adopted eventually.

There was to me some striking statements in your posts, for instance your W has said she wants the two youngest immediately. Your W stated there were other ways of having babies, she may want one of her own.

I am not saying this is the case with you and W although I am pondering at the upheaval you are considering so that W can parent. W has left her children and moved to another country, parents generally don't just leave their children in this way, they do most anything to be with them, near them, they put their children first above any personal needs.

W may actually only prefer the younger boys and if she has another baby then that could be quite damaging especially to the older boys. You clearly love your children and I do not doubt that W does although her behaviour at this stage is inconsistent.

I agree with your L to stay where you are, I do not doubt your ability to cope or parent. You are clearly the more stable parent at this stage and this is so difficult with 5 boys which you have adopted. I deeply respect your objective to hold your family together.

Like Julie and Sandi I worry about your W feelings of entitlement, suppose she spoke to an OM in Mexico and wanted to move there, would you uproot?

You may consider moving to be with W and then moving back? The effect on your family in this is worrying.

W necklace from OM is a red flag for me.

I remain unconvinced your W skills to parent the older boys (I do not doubt your skills and willingness) and the support she has with her family seems inadequate.

W stated she was unhappy with your M and yet together you adopted two more boys. The process for adoption here in the UK is very strict and I would suspect so in your state. That is a great deal of cover up to you and the adoption authorities of her unhappiness. Adopotion and long term fostering come with additional responsibilities with children of difficult backgrounds, especially when children are from different family groups. I know you know this and have stated you will parent and support your children.

Men can be the stronger better and more stable parent for their children. I am minded of Irish M, RD and Joe (there are many more wonderful fathers who have posted).

Your children come first above everything else. Jellyb is wise in her advice on this and I defer to her better judgement.

I am expressing my concerns in case they are of value, if I am overstepping I apologise.

V

[J5K]

Thank you Squiggy

I will be careful not to ask/demand anything from her.

Yes, I am ok with the move. Always was, just wanted it to be as a family.

Spoke to L about the D. She said put it on hold for now.

MC is set up for this Tuesday for W and I, she agreed to it.
She also asked if she could stay at the house from Thursday through next Tuesday and we can do things as a family instead of going back to Toronto since she has to be back for MC. I said that was thoughtful and would like that.

OK, no discussion on EAs.

I will tread lightly on the last three suggestions you gave me. Thanks again.

[Squiggy]

Jim, also make sure you are not a wet noodle that bends to your wife's every demand. V brought up very good points, in her magical way, that I was unable to verbalize. Your W left you, moved countries, demanded your balls in her hand, and possibly had an A.

If you do not make changes now to the marriage, then you will be back here again.

I'm not trying to be mean, Jim. I'm just concerned and want nothing but the best for you and your boys.

[J5K]

V

Thank you for the input. IMHO I don't think she is just looking to raise the boys that are just under school age. I guess that is still to be seen by her actions.

Your input is priceless.

She is arriving tomorrow night and staying until Tuesday so this will be a good trial run on how things will be in the future.

W and I are going to have apps and spend one on one time tomorrow night. I lined up a sitter for the boys after they go to bed.

We are going to take the boys swimming at the gym on Saturday and she said she will cook dinner on Sunday for the family.

Question, what do I do if she wants to be intimate?

[J5K]

Squiggy,

No more wet noodle for me. I have my boundaries and will stick to them.

What is she is on the phone with OM/new friends? I plan on being "as if". Is that the right approach?

[Vanilla]

Jim

There is a joke here in the UK, how do you like your eggs in the morning?

Response unfertilised.

Play it safe, I am liberal on the ML thing, whatever works. You are M.

You have a boundary on OM don't you? Enforce it as your boundary.

You have the power in this sitch. Transparency if WW doesn't want it then think again, you will be moving into OM home territory. That would not be my choice in an active A sitch.

V