WW, My Addiction, Patience, and HOPE Part II

[sandi2]

W reiterated that W doesn't love me, that she still has feelings for OM, but NC is in effect. W cannot forgive me for the porn and 'crap' I put her thru for 15 years. I have forgiven wife, but have a hard time with hurt and resentment. W feels that because I'm still hurt that I have not completely forgiven her.

And she doesn't see the double standard in her not forgiving you but she doesn't like it if she thinks you have not completely forgiven her!

Does the Pastor know that you had sex 15 times in 14 years? I think it is important he know, if he is going to counsel with you both.

If I choose to want complete Reconciliation, I'm going to have to acknowledge to my W that what I did was just as bad as what she has done. That's really difficult for me - my heart was never with the computer, but to my W, my heart was never with her. Her heart is still with OM.

Is that what your Pastor said?

Every day this goes on, I feel like I'm trapped. Trapped in a doomed marriage to a woman incapable of expressing the love I need and want. To a woman who really resents me with every fiber of her being, to the point she gets physically upset being around me and has to leave the room.

She is just too resentful right now. She has all these feelings for the OM, and she has all this anger toward you. If she can maintain NC until she gets through the withdrawals, then she will be in better shape to make progress. Right now, she sees you as being self-righteous and claiming your sin is not as bad as hers. She feels it is unfair to request transparency from her, and may resent the fact that none was required from you during your porn days.

I know what she's experiencing. It doesn't mean she's right or wrong, I just know how she feels. It is hell for both of you.

[trumpet]

And for the other side of the coin, RE: porn, I think you know better. Yes, PA is awful and the worst. There's reason why Jesus Christ says that a man even looking at woman that way is the same. Don't dismiss her feelings. They are real and there is real damage.
Sorry to be blunt and harsh. I know you've come so far. She has far to come too. Don't dismiss her...be firm. Just as you have encouraged me. :-)

Kyrie, thank you. Simply, it's my pride getting in the way.

The longer I'm away from the porn, the more I realize what my needs and wants are. Then doubt creeps in, since the porn was a way to self-medicate myself for the desires I wasn't getting met. Could I stay married to just have a friendship, and for the kids, and for the hope that someday, sometime, my wife comes around? Will I become the husband they she can't imagine leaving, and then change? Will she just tire of having me around?

If her example of growing up was a mom who gave very little to her dad, and her dad was happy with it, will she forever expect that relationship to be the example of a Christian wife/husband? Will disrespect be something she'll always have for a husband?

I have lots of growing to do. It's tough to see the light bulb go on in my brain, but my wife to see her hopes going back to the way it was.

TxHubby - No, wayward is no longer contacting OM. At issue is transparency - she feels like I have no right to access her phone or email. That trust and respect for her is something I should naturally have.

[trumpet]

W reiterated that W doesn't love me, that she still has feelings for OM, but NC is in effect. W cannot forgive me for the porn and 'crap' I put her thru for 15 years. I have forgiven wife, but have a hard time with hurt and resentment. W feels that because I'm still hurt that I have not completely forgiven her.

And she doesn't see the double standard in her not forgiving you but she doesn't like it if she thinks you have not completely forgiven her!

Does the Pastor know that you had sex 15 times in 14 years? I think it is important he know, if he is going to counsel with you both.

If I choose to want complete Reconciliation, I'm going to have to acknowledge to my W that what I did was just as bad as what she has done. That's really difficult for me - my heart was never with the computer, but to my W, my heart was never with her. Her heart is still with OM.

Is that what your Pastor said?

Every day this goes on, I feel like I'm trapped. Trapped in a doomed marriage to a woman incapable of expressing the love I need and want. To a woman who really resents me with every fiber of her being, to the point she gets physically upset being around me and has to leave the room.

She is just too resentful right now. She has all these feelings for the OM, and she has all this anger toward you. If she can maintain NC until she gets through the withdrawals, then she will be in better shape to make progress. Right now, she sees you as being self-righteous and claiming your sin is not as bad as hers. She feels it is unfair to request transparency from her, and may resent the fact that none was required from you during your porn days.

I know what she's experiencing. It doesn't mean she's right or wrong, I just know how she feels. It is hell for both of you.

Yes, Sandi - pastor treats the sins the same. What I did is just as bad as what Wife did. At least he sees healing from it happening in the same way. What throws us is how differently we're healing. If it was at the same rate, or close to it, I can see reconciliation happening successfully. If my wife continues to hold huge anger, resentment, and spite for me, there isn't anything for me to hold onto. When is she going to forgive and work on us? Who knows! We have 3 months to work on things, and decide if the divorce will continue on. If we do nothing, the divorce continues. If my wife is in the same spot as she is now, I would likely see the divorce moving forward - she'd see the three months, and her not forgiving me as the sign that we were wrong from the start. Me not working on the relationship? Another sign. Her still angry? Another sign.

Unless SHE decides to really work on herself, and then make efforts towards US, it's where it's headed. I can forgive her all I want, speak her LL, do nothing but be happy around her, but in the end, she has the timer set. Her scorecard is still tallying marks.

Yes, and it's tough. And the more I self-actualize, the more I'll be OK with or without her. It's like a slippery slope - every day the thought "would it really be THAT bad to divorce from a wife who doesn't love me, and might not ever love me?" Scary to think about.

My vows and my committment keep me here. My wife has said more than once since I trampled on my vows with the pornography, she is allowed to divorce me, and since she cheated, I'm allowed to divorce her. That the vow means nothing once you break it.

We are human - we break things. We make promises we can't keep. If the possibility of someone screwing up would lead them to not have a relationship with me, so be it. That's on them. Life is messy.

Also, that advice is something I need to heap on myself. My wife screwed up, and I have forgiven her - I think I have. What does forgiveness look like? True forgiveness?

It's tough to imagine what forgiveness is when you grant forgiveness, but get nothing in return, and actually get scorn and resentment in return. It's what Jesus did, and I need to be more like him. That's what I'm leaning on.

Lots of 'what if?' and 'if this happens, then what?' questions rattling around in my brain.

[Mowgli]

Hang in there, man!

One thing I found that really helped me dealing with the piecing phase was the knowledge that the R was something I was choosing.

I was choosing to be there and work through this difficult time. I knew that I had put my heart and soul and everything I had into piecing the M back together and improving myself and I knew that if I felt like couldn't handle it, that I could walk away with my head held high knowing I gave it my best shot and knowing that I would be fine either way.

With that realization came a lot of confidence. You're not stuck, you're making a choice.

Remember that and good luck buddy! I'm so proud of how far we've both come!

[trumpet]

Thanks, Mowgli.

I just had someone today, who knows the sitch, comment to me that they thought I was handling things really well, understanding the emotions underneath the actions. I'm committed. Piecing happens when we both want to work on it. I have to wait to see if W wants to piece when she's forgiven me.

Until then, like how I feel today, I'm going to work on myself.

Emptied my desk today at work. Boxes in the van, going to the new office at the new job. Finish out the week, and relax for a couple days. New job starts on Monday. New attitude, new job, new focus.

[ARose]

Trumpet I was thinking about the healing at different paces. I am right there with you- ready to move on, while my H is just as stuck as he was at BD. (Yes, I am mind reading.) I think it has to do with how long the spouse feels like he/she was victimized. For your w, 15 years, for my H 26 years. If you really and truly have convinced yourself that you are a victim then healing might never come. At some point do we decide to walk away ourselves or to stay in a situation that might never improve. I don't know when that day will come. I used to think it never would, now sometimes I think that walking away might be the very thing my H needs for me to do for him to heal. It hurts no matter what happens.

I agree with your friend that you are handling this very well.

Good luck on your new job.

[sandi2]

When we try to forgive in our own human strength, it is difficult not to look at what we get, or don't get, in return. In the Spirit of Christ, we can forgive based on His strength. He give us the strength to forgive without expecting anything in return.

Obviously, a wayward spouse is not in close fellowship with the Lord, and your W is thinking in the flesh and not the Spirit. You would think that even human rationale could see her double standard, but apparently her resentment has her brain too clouded to use the tiniest logic yet.

Are the two of you seeing a counselor beside the Pastor? I was never sure.

[trumpet]

So, good last few days.

I said goodnight to wife in our old bedroom. She fell asleep quickly. I had an urge - I picked up her phone and she has changed her login again! grr. Well, too many attempts, and the iphone locked for 1 min. I left it and went to bed.

She was irate this morning that I would try to violate her again and pry into her life. She had to reset her phone for some reason - I think she had logged in incorrectly after last night.

Anyway, I'm the fixer, I try to explain, she will have none of it. Says she can't live like this, and will be contacting her lawyer to re-start the divorce. I try to apologize - she is still pissed. I asked 'why would you change your password if you have nothing to hide?' - she says she was happy to show me the phone on her terms, if I asked and she was ready, but me snooping makes it a violation of her privacy.

Now - I have no access to anything, have not in a week. To build trust, I'm supposed to just leave her alone, and ask when I need to. My trust in her is destroyed. I don't believe anything she tells me, so I was trying to verify.

Ugh. I did screw up. I tried to talk with her. I apologized. She said she will not forgive me. She said she really hates me, and wonders what she's doing all this for when she can't stand me.

Truly, the only conversations we can do is 'good morning' and good night', with kid stuff in between. With no work going on in the relationship, will the next 3 months of the divorce 'hold' really do anything? I want to fix, but a good friend said just trust the Holy Spirit to work, leave her alone, and start building my own life as if I'm already divorced.


So, folks - a few questions:
How do you build trust?
What does true forgiveness look like? Have I truly forgiven her?

[SciDad]

OMG, that [censored]!

The only way to build trust is to earn it through your actions. Simple example - if your wife agrees that you can look at her phone if she's in the room, ONLY look at her phone if she's in the room. In my case when I had questions and wanted to look at her phone I asked her directly and made sure to say that I hadn't looked because that's what we had agreed to. She still resisted and I didn't end up looking, but I think I earned a little trust from her because I hadn't looked...

[Squiggy]

Piecing is difficult, bud. It really is, and there's no perfect guideline for it. One thing I've found is that each person definitely heals at different paces for different reasons. In my case I had done much more personal work than W did while separated. By the time we got to Retrouvaille, I was entirely focused on the MR while she was still working on her own demons and guilt. I saw her struggle for months afterwards as well. What worked and kept us going strong was that I stayed strong and stuck with my changes, DBing, and the things from Retrouvaille. Someone has to lead. For example, and I'm laughing while I write this, I remember our first argument a couple weeks after the Retrouvaille weekend. She got SO mad at me when I told her I'm choosing to love her by walking away until we both calm down.

Relax, don't try and fix, and validate. Work on that trust and show her that you really have changed and give her the space to do so herself. Piecing takes time and will have bumps along the road. Do your best to keep that road smooth.