Remind me why you were avoiding Mr W's calls last week?
I agree with Merrick (I think it was) who mentioned retrouvaille. Neither my dh nor I ever truly shared our honest feelings with each other about much of anything important until our retrouvaille weekend. It was *profoundly* moving for both of us -- completely draining emotionally, yet very uplifting at the same time. You really are forced to confront your deepest feelings about yourself and your marriage -- in a constructive way. Without retrouvaille, I truly believe that dh and I would be well on our way to a D right now, with or without DB efforts. We just had no idea how to go about communicating honestly and openly.
QUOTE __________________________________________________________ Lastly and most importantly, I finally understand that the reason he doesn't want a divorce or to work on reconciliation is because both paths require effort.
That is the crux of everything here. He likes doing nothing. He likes not being responsible or making decisions. Getting a D would require a lot of time, money and effort to finish the split. Working on reconciliation also requires more than just showing up somewhere.
With this, I realized something earth shattering. I don't love this man. I loved the man I married--the guy who loved me back and treated me like his only love. The father of my girls. But that guy has been gone for a few years now. Frankly, I don't think that guy is ever coming back because it requires too much effort and thought.
And I don't love the man who doesn't stand for anything. Really.
So as always, the ball is in my court. I'll spend the next month or so really devoting energy to what I want to happen. I really don't want to be in a M where separation is going to linger indefinitely.
To quote BB King: The thrill is gone ___________________________________________________________
Wow Betsey -
Your statement about loving the man you married not what he is now sounds like one of the subjects on the threads. I'd like to find that field that is holding all those old good husbands - I'd even pay the ransom.
Sounds like you had a great birthday. Thanks for visiting my thread - I needed the heads up.
Mary
"God, help me keep my head up, my heart open, and know I'll always be guided along the path."
I've been away most of the day--busy doing work related things. Hope all is well for my ocean friends.
Mary, how much ransom? Maybe we can pool all our money and start negotiating with terrorists?
I suppose that isn't possible... because the truth is that there is free will involved here. They all have the ability to look down and notice that they've had the ruby slippers on their feet all along. They just needed to realize that they have had the power to make themselves happy all along.
Hopefully, we won't all become casualties of war.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Quote: Face it, this guy really doesn't want to be with me. At least for the past few years and right now. If he did, he could have shown a glimpse of that by asking us to go to dinner to celebrate my birthday... that would have been easy to do and I would have jumped at the chance.
I'd be willing to agree to this IF we didn't also have all of the phone calls, the lewd comment at the bowling alley, the compliments on your weight loss. I was SURE that on Valentine's Day my H was going to tell me he loved me. Well, we know that didn't happen. But, a scant 6 weeks later, he did. Did he NOT love me on Valentine's Day? I don't think so. I don't think this is something that just popped up all of the sudden. So, yes, on Valentine's Day he CHOSE to act as if it were any other day. No card, no anything. I don't know why! I don't know why he went for 6 long months without saying he loved me. I may never know. What I am trying to say is this: I could have chosen to believe that since on the "day of love" he didn't acknowledge me, it meant he didn't care for me one bit. Much like you choose to believe this about your b-day. I doubt he even called me on that day. It could have been one of the days he left without saying goodbye, too. But, I accepted it just as I have accepted the good days- the calls, the suggestive remarks, etc. It's all just part of this damn uphill climb. Thank God I didn't let it be the deal breaker, as you know that things are going remarkably well over here.
I know that every sitch is different. I know that you have been at this far longer than I have. BUT, as I told Meredith, we are all STILL discovering things that work. A couple months ago it was Bob Barkering. Progress was good. Was it the ONLY answer to this muddled mess? NO! There isn't one easy fix. I imagine it is like a chemistry potion- finding the right mix of many solutions.
Damn.. I wish I was as clear and articulate as you and Mer. I do struggle with getting my point across...
Anyway, I guess the idea of my original post was that I wondered if all of this affirmation and attention was somehow making it very difficult for Mr. W to "compete." Right now he doesn't offer up a lot of affirmation (or attention), and gravitating towards where you get it is a natural thing. It just got me thinking that maybe he is offering a little more than you realize, but it cannot compare with the grand scale you get here, and by going back home to people that haven't seen you in ages.
I just felt like you were holding out your hands like a scale, weighing how you feel in general. Around other people and talking to BB aquaintences? Hand way up. Around Mr. Wonderful? Other hand down. Can you picture this?
So, I started to wonder- how much of this is perceived, how much reality? Only you know this, and I totally believe in you and your judgement. I just want you to see it from this angle too, o.k?
I am not taking you as "giving up the ship." I think that the baby steps just ain't cutting it. I understand this.
I just wanted the opportunity to say, those steps really are there. Now that they are, why is it not enough? What is the cause of this restlessness?
Betsey, I KNOW you have been hammering away at this for a long time. Only you will know when to stop. I have faith that if you choose this path, it will be done so with a lot of thought (towards many, not just yourself).
I just wanted to remind you that many thoughts as to what "works" have just begun happening. I bet there are many more to come.
So, if I sounded like a downer- I wasn't really. I just wanted to point out that maybe the "payoff" of the BB was hindering the payoff with MR. W.
And trust me, I'm listening to your every word, because I believe I flung some of them at you initially back on VD. I promise not to act on any ASSumptions, okay?
I don't know if I'm making any comparison between Mr. Wonderful and any other source of affirmation. The BB is a great place to get some WOA, as are all the nice messages I get from friends and family. Everyone has been very supportive of my desire to hold out hope in my M.
Right now, I'm just cataloging things. You are right when saying that not doing something for my birthday isn't any indicator of how he's feeling. In fact, if I hold the past to the reality of the present, there isn't a whole lot of difference.
He'd have bought me a present, though. He just never thought to celebrate with me... I believe he brought me a DQ cake 4 years ago at work because he found out in MC a few months before that I was so unhappy at never having a cake.
Point taken. He does things his own way.
But remember our promise to stop the seal routine at some point? I'm closing in on that.
Pam, my M has been in complete shambles for 2 years now. And I have been unhappy in it since 1999. I'm really tired of dealing with an emotionally crippled man and waiting around like some sort of circus freak for him to get the point of this path.
I wish I had found DB or DR way back when...
Interestingly enough, I just had a chat with my sister. She asked how long I plan on living with the complete indifference? I told her until I offer reconciliation until it is no longer an option.
There will HAVE to come a time in the very near future where he is willing to make a decision--either way. He's had one foot out the door for a long time now, Pam.
And unlike your H, I'm really not getting other warm and fuzzies that tell me his actions are preceding the words. As Merrick astutely observed, he wants to dictate the terms of engagement between us: when he wants his family, he comes home. When he doesn't, he leaves.
I've been patient to the point of wondering if I'm a head case. I have allowed that sort of wandering in and out to be acceptable in the vein of letting him fumble his way back in the door to me. But he's still somewhere out there in the yard...
Well, if living apart indefinitely is going to be status quo, why not make it official? And on the other hand, if D is possibly something he wants to avoid, don't you think he should commit to doing something about it?
Surely I could pay the MC enough money to knock a few posts out from under his fence--I just have to hope Briget doesn't bring her post digger over to resurrect them!
After our big chat after my meeting with the investigator, Mr. Wonderful admitted that he has deliberately avoided thinking about me and the miserable state of our M since he left. Remember his comment about being unsure why he felt he had to leave in the first place?
Well, how much longer do I have to endure his deliberate avoidance of the elephant in the living room? I've been an afterthought for a really long time now. It's time for the important stuff to be moved off the back burner onto the hot seat.
I realize that I cannot do this without help. That's why I'm going to keep the standing appointment with our MC going every other Thursday--hoping he will decide it's safe to try again.
But to be candid with all of you, my feeling for this process have changed. I really do not love this man anymore, Pam. If he goes to MC and gives reconciliation an honest effort, I'm going to have to put in a lot of work to decide to love him again.
Sorry if MY post is the downer. I'm really not down in the dumps, ladies and gentlemen. Quite the contrary. A few months ago, this realization would have devastated me. But the fact is that I have been the strong and dependable person in the family for way too long.
He's not looking out for me... it's my job to ensure I take care of myself anyway.
And face it, a crotch grabbing incident and commenting on my rear end is hardly an honest attempt at WOA or even reconciliation.
However, as someone who sees the glass as half full, I will let go and let God. If this M is going to work out, I will honor my end of the bargain to give it everything I have. And I won't quit until I know the fat lady has grabbed the mike.
Do I still get to wear a fugly dress?
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
What a wonderful post. And if it gets to that point, you can definitely hold your head high and know that you gave it your all. You're certainly no quitter.
I can't add to your post or even comment except to say that I know exactly how you're feeling, I know what you're saying. I could have written those words myself... if I were feeling eloquent enough for that (and frankly, today, well, not so eloquent).
I'm right there with you girl. My M has also been in shambles for 2 years and my H is wandering round the county, never mind the yard.
The time for questions is here for me too. My H called me today and we had a pretty good chat, considering his reason for calling was more about the D papers... and he can't tell me why he wants a D when 2 months ago he did not. It is the effort that seems so damn hard for them.
So Mr. W is showing some reconnection. And Betsey's waiting to see what's what.
I'm not feeling down either.
I'm thinking that fat lady should be run out of town. I hope you are well Betsey. You're an inspiration to many, for many reasons and the admirable job you're doing of standing for your M is but one.
Why? Because you are so painfully honest. You express yourself so beautifully, and you are so special.
O.K. It's all good. I hope you understand that I couldn't consider myself your friend if something was nagging at me and I didn't express it. It was just one of those things that I wanted you to think through. You never disappoint, Betsey. You certainly thought it all through, and answered eloquently.
Thanks for taking me seriously enough to put forth all of that effort.
I know that our sitches are so different. I would have crazy-made myself right out of yours months upon months ago. Sometimes I wonder where this "Zen" personality of mine came from. But, of course, maybe it's just a matter of not going through the same version of hell that you do. You're right, I did have a little more to keep me going. But, in all fairness, in my muddled state of mind, I certainly didn't see it.
I always wonder if people really do in fact fall out of love. I've never had the experience, so I just don't know.
With all the honesty, Betsey, I have a confession of my own. What if it is possible? I have such a fear of going through all of this and then wondering why I did. Like, I roped myself into something that I do not want to be roped into. I look at my H, thinning hair and lack of style and all, and I wonder if I will always have "it" for him. I mean, I have given and given and given to this marriage. The pathetic girl that you first met, the one who blamed herself for everything, is gone. I'm not going to continue to take the blame for what happened to my marriage. But, I fought for it mainly because I believe it is what is right for me. I want to see this commitment through. Maybe this is the wrong approach to take. Maybe it should be all for the sake of love. I don't really know.
Are there relationships that are not such "chores?" I don't know that either. Judging by the book, no. The honeymoon period ends for all of us.
So, I chose my H, and I chose to have kids with him. I have to see it through. Am I cheating myself? Maybe, at times. But, maybe not at others. When my sons have their children, and I am standing in unison with the man that brought those sons into the world with me, I think I will breathe a contented sigh at that choice. I like that he has known me since I was a small girl. I like that he has seen me at my worst. Only he knows what I am capable of. I can tell anyone about my crazy life; only he has lived it with me.
I feel too idealistic at this point. I have a bad habit of making things way too simplistic. I'd hate for you to want to shake me and say, "but I wanted those things too...it just didn't work out!"
Trust me, I understand this. I don't fault you. You have fought this fight better than most. Whichever way this goes, I know that it will have come from the very best you had to give.
If in this process you have found that you no longer love Mr. W., and don't think you ever will again, well, I still believe this process worked. Some may say you're a failure at DBing if you don't end up with the big prize, the marriage.
But, I know that you are a success at DBing if you are able to look at yourself in the mirror and say, "I did what I could, but I have to love ME the most."
I know you can most definately do this.
So can I. And it is true for both of us, even if we take different paths.
So, thank you for understanding my need to cover all bases.
