Mr. Wonderful has always been the epitome of a hard working man. His work ethic was something I always admired. He's not a lazy person by nature, and I'm one of the few women I know who never complained that he didn't help around the house.
But you hit a chord with the passions questions. To my knowledge, he has not lived them. Well, maybe one--his boyhood dream of being an engineer. Which he is living.
We moved from CA to CO because he wanted to have more space and less crowds. He wanted an opportunity to raise a family in a good environment. And he wanted to own a house without being a slave to a mortgage.
I wasn't exactly ready to leave CA--I had only been there 3 years, and had finally made good friends. But I was in love with him and willing to see his side of things. I'm not sorry we moved here either.
He seems to enjoy working with his hands. His line of work does not allow him to show others the fruits of his labor, so he spent our entire marriage working on the house: landscaping our old yard, finishing off the basement (and he was told by professionals that he did a pro quality job), redoing our present kitchen, etc.
He loves fishing and golf as well.
Do you see any pattern to his forms of recreation? They are all solo and not requiring another human if he doesn't want to include one.
If someone were to ask Mr. W. RIGHT NOW what he wants out of life, I think his answer would be 'TO BE LEFT ALONE'.
The passions that I have for myself have been much more strong and family involved. I, too, love remodeling projects. I can't do the work, so I do the design. I have come to enjoy my Scottish heritage and all that entails.
Actually, I really enjoy pursuing his Norwegian roots as well. This means I LOVE to travel.
I love theater--have season tickets here and have since D10 was born. He used to attend with me when the show interested him.
Then there's the foundation. When I started it 5 years ago, more than several people told me to make sure I involved Mr. W. because it would be the tool of resentment.
I did include him, but since it was MY dream it ended up becoming a tool of resentment later on. Now it is not. He's working the tournament fund raiser and enjoying himself with it. And personally, I think he enjoys the accolades that go along with the recognition of doing something for children with special needs.
In essence, he only has that drive because it was something he received via osmosis through me.
My wacky spiritual medium friend told me something interesting about Mr. W. 5 years ago... he said that Mr. Wonderful is content just being. He doesn't need to achieve or fulfill anyone else's expectations. He told me to be careful about making a square peg fit into a round hole.
Back then, I wasn't aware that doing that very thing was what I was doing.
I don't think he's wrong or bad for being different than me. Merrick, I have enough passion for both of us. I play hard, I love intensely, I express myself the way that I'm feeling.
I really suspect he loves me more than he's ever loved anyone else. He just doesn't know how to deal with all that the chore entails. To him, loving me costs him dearly. It forces him to look at things that frighten him. It forces him to think about things that most people don't like thinking about. It forces change.
Well, the truth is that we've got it good. I also suspect that he knows that the reason our life with D7 is as easy going as it possibly could be is because of me. I have always sought to understand why she is here and why she was given to us.
She's a tool to teach everyone unconditional love. I see this in every R I have... from my family members and close friends to those who I meet along the way. You happened to meet her at a time when lying on the floor at Starbucks was all she aspired in life! But for the most part, she engages with people who she instinctively knows need to hear the message.
He has all of the tools available to him right under his nose. But dealing with us is hard work. I know he's tired. Hell, I'm tired too! But you can't just stop the roller coaster of life and expect the whole world to stop too. At some point, you have to crawl back on and continue.
The crazymaker in me used to live for the thrill of the constant rollercoaster. But no longer. I actually seek peace and quiet. My life is as exciting as I need it to be. Every day is a new adventure and a new chance to prove to myself that I can get balanced awfully quickly.
So the big question is does he think that the effort is worthwhile? I strongly suspect fear.
Which brings me to another thing my wacky friend mentioned way back when... he told me that Mr. Wonderful feels that loving me costs him dearly--in the price that he goes along with me because he likes giving me what I need and want and ends up really enjoying himself with me... but at the same time, resents that it is me who is the driving force in our R.
What do you do with this?
Maybe I ought to sneak down to the Pepsi Center and catch Mike Modano in action???
GO AVS!
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
On my last post, I know the sitch with D7 had a lot to do with Mr. W's chnages and I didn't want to dismiss it as an issue or appear insensitive for not mentioning it (btw, y'all--I got to meet D7 and she's as cute as can be and one of the most well-behaved kids I've ever met). Still, the underlying issues remain the same--what makes him tick?
Quote: He just doesn't know how to deal with all that the chore entails. To him, loving me costs him dearly. It forces him to look at things that frighten him. It forces him to think about things that most people don't like thinking about. It forces change.
If someone had this a year ago, it would have described me to a tee.
Quote: his Norwegian roots
My heredity is Swedish. One thing I've learned in the past year is that many of those of Scandavian descent are prone to certain kinds of depression. They are usually mild, but can be serious, and can often manifest themselves in behavioral things like quietness, anxiety about life, sometimes a lack of passion about things. Us Swedes can be notoriously short on words--something I seem to be overcoming.
I've learned some of this from my C, some of it from reading, but I am acutely aware of it from my Father and my Grandfather. I'm not suggesting Mr W is depressed, or that this is definitely Mr W's problem, but I'm curious if you think this is something that may be a factor?
Merrick--That thought process didn't even occur to me...
However, I don't know what makes him tick. He's not a really complicated person, though.
I'll think about this more, though.
Pam, yes, those were all really positive things. I think he values me, our friendship and our past. I think he actually loves me to the best ability he can--at least right now.
I'm not getting rid of him.
I still have the appts with MC next week and at the end of the month. I plan on heading there anyway. I DO hope that Mr. Wonderful feels motivated by something to at least come see what reconciliation really looks like.
I don't plan on leading the show or forcing him to do something he doesn't want to do. He has to believe this, though. Will he? Won't he? I really don't know right now.
Time will tell.
But this newfound awareness just gives me something concrete to work with when making any decisions down the line.
I don't want him to be somebody he doesn't want to be to love me. At the same time, I am who I am as well.
If I had the chance to repeat a question I asked of him right after he left, I would: "When you asked me to marry you, why did you feel that I was the girl you couldn't live without? And why has that changed?"
Who wants me to play the $64M dollar question?
BTW, you saw D7 at her best! She lacked energy and enthusiasm... which is not her M.O. This kid is usually all over the place. She pulled the elevator alarm at the library yesterday, which made for some really good fun.... I'm trying hard not to laugh at your description of her being well behaved
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Yes, I think Mr. Wonderful is depressed. I've thought that for a really long time. In fact, he has many family members who I think are walking around without a diagnosis and/or treatment. Furthermore, they think they aren't depressed.
Oddly enough, his father is a classic example as well as his Norwegian grandmother (her untreated depression was legendary in the family). His grandfather emigrated from Norway when he was 16.... his grandmother had moved to the US when she was a baby.
He does recognize that he has Seasonal Affectation Disorder (SAD). He seems much more happy during Daylight Savings Time and during the summer months. Living in Colorado has helped, because we have many sunny days all year long (more than San Diego).
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I have to do a conference call in two minutes, but there is a lot of me in your H. I think once before I posted that your description of him scared me because it sounded so much like me.
Quote: If someone were to ask Mr. W. RIGHT NOW what he wants out of life, I think his answer would be 'TO BE LEFT ALONE'.
If I had to guess, I think a more accurate description here is not that he wants to be left alone, but that he wants the right or ability to be left alone when chooses. So, your descritoipn of him and the current state of your R is that he has found a way to secure that right--to control the terms of engagement and disengagement from you as he sees fit. Not exactly the foundation for a healthy M, but at the same time--a real opening for a postive healthier M if the two of you can truly learn to respect and understand each other's needs. I truly suspect that deep down this is what Mr. W really wants, but he just doesn't know how to express and is fearful of your reaction--so he is in his comfort zone right now, but I don't think this is soemthing he would be comfortable with over many years (I assume he still has physical needs and his crude act at the bowling alley was an immature but sincere way of expressing those needs without making himself vulnerable).
I could be playing with fire, but I think Retrouvaille might be the type of experience that could greatly benefit the two of you. It provides an environment for intense self-reflection in the safety of being with others (you don't have to talk in front other people) while trying to reestablish the foundational connection that allows you to move forward.
In the end, in many ways he is doing what I am trying to do right now--and what Laurie suggested are new goals. His goal is to maintain the family and dismiss whatever he needs from you--because for whatever reason he doesn't think he will get it or will be hurt--so he has detached from you. Gotta run, but my hypothesis. Although it may not seem like it, that's a lot of good there to work with.
You have the power to change lives and maybe even destiny! After our chat this morning, I reflected on what was said by you and made a decision..................that I will stay in Separated until I have the D in my hand. That won't be at least until end of June. So check out my new thread in Separated.
Berto
I believe that dreams are more powerful than facts,that laughter is the only cure for grief. And I believe that love is stronger than death
Quote: Frankly, I don't think that guy is ever coming back because it requires too much effort and thought.
I fear I may have the same problem with my H.
At bombshell time he said, "If we have to work on a relationship, then it's not worth it"!
If he spent a fraction of the time thinking about how to mend this R that he spends on researching tobacco and pipes, his lates craze, then we'd have a marriage to be proud of!
(I wish it really were funny... )
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Okay, now I'm really scared. LNL...My H said the SAME thing!!
Betsey......An engineer- MINE is TOO!!!; I can totally relate to what you said here!!! I have analyzed most of my sitch and through reading, etc...believe that my H is the same way. Just last night I came to realize that he's scared. Scared to fail, if he takes a 2nd chance; scared that I may be right about how Great it can be in the future; scared to "CHANGE" or accept that it is happening.
This is too eerie........ (sorry guys)-some men just SUCK at admitting their true feelings to others and to themselves. (of course I'm not including you WONDERFUL men on the BB here)
So, we have become their "safety zone". I totally agree and that's where I'm headed. Whether or not it will be a good thing, I don't know but it can't hurt. Like we always said, if it's not working, try something new. So, it's time to shake it up a bit and see if my H will put any effort into it or not. He's actually done more than I thought he would ever do already.
Well, all I can say is Good Luck. I'll agree that we are aligned (kind of like Mercury and the Sun?? LOL) but soon you will pass me-I'm sure. LOL!
I do love my H and do believe that he exists inside this person. Right now he is just a shell of the man I know and love and is in a "zombie-like" state. I don't want to put my life on hold forever either so I"m gonna see what affect MC has for us.
I am glad you see the light and are comfortable with your decisions. I still have a little bit of work to do there but am gaining ground. You're a great person and I wish you success in your endeavors. Take care and stop over to share your thoughts w/me again. Tootles......
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