We separated all of our accounts too. I had always been the spendy one, and she the frugal one. I'm really learning how to be a lot more frugal now--I think its been very good for me, and I'd probably want to keep the accounts separated even after we'd gotten back together.
A quick drop-in. I loved your Houston analogy and I like what I'm hearing about MC. That's great.
On Retrouvaille, religion plays a role, but is less important than the program's initial efforts to build a positive emotional connection in a setting with similarly situtaed folks. You soon learn that you're not alone and also are led by happy couples that have stories that could be as worse as yours. Comfort in numbers I guess. The key is that your H MUST WANT to work on M. I went when my W was in full-blown EA and wanted to convince me to leave--an Rx for disaster. While MC could obviate the benefits of Retrouvaille, it's your call.
As an aside, I still may be in DC next week, but it's more likely to be Tues - Wed than Thursday. I'll zip you an e-mail when I know--which may not be until Monday. KOFTGF.
Before I forget, to all less recent posters--I had an e-mail message this morning from our friend, Gripman, who sends his fond hello to all here. His D was finalized earlier this month, and he sounds happy. Even out doing a bit of dancing and a great dad that he is. (I miss you, Gripman.)
Merrick--I'm not ruling out Retrouvaille. It's just going to be something that will become part of our tool kit later on. Right now, we have to get the landing module back to earth safely...
As far as the money goes, it's a pretty personal thing and there is not one size fits all answer for each of us. I see benefits in pretty much any set up... My point in keeping things separate, particularly for me and Mr. W., is that it is important for each of us to feel like we have control over our lives.
And I'm not asking anyone to challenge me on my next statement, because I believe it: Money is power.
In an ideal world, it would work ideally to have a joint account where both partners had the same approach to fiscal matters. Actually, Mr. W. and I do. We're both savers and investors (though I'm a lot more risky with mine) and we both believe in cushions. I'm a little more risky with my request for purchases--for example, it was me who justified the value in buying the motor home.
Keeping a joint account did work for us--if we are only basing this on our belief system in regards to money.
But the truth of the matter is that he hated the fact that I kept the checkbook in my purse. Hey, I did all the bill paying, grocery shopping and took care of the girls and all the stuff that is required to take care of them. It wasn't that I didn't want him to have the checkbook....
But then we got into small little resentments if he went out and bought himself a new fishing reel, or if I bought myself a pair of earrings. Things we both termed as "useless" and a waste of money. Things that we felt got in our way of other financial commitments.
I don't ever want to go back to being those people again. Therefore, I don't want to put us in a spot where one of us has to justify why we want a manicure/pedicure or a new bowling ball. Asking for permission to buy a new pair of jeans makes me feel as though I'm a child and need daddy's permission. Asking permission from me to buy a new grill makes him feel like mommy controls him.
Life is too short for us to do that to each other anymore.
Not much to report about last night and his dinner with D (my boss). He called me from his cell on his way home. I had left a voicemail message for him to ask for help taking the kids on Monday (first day of spring break) because D7's arrangements fell though.
He said he would, talked to D10, and then asked her to give the phone back to me. He was very chatty and happy. He closed our convo with, "I guess I won't see you tomorrow (and sounded a little sad), so hopefully we'll talk before I bring the girls back."
D told me this morning that they pretty much discussed the golf tournament and the direction of the foundation. My 2 other board members want to call a meeting when I get back from DC to discuss how to take this forward, and they both had some great ideas.
D just walked into my office and gave me the name of a fund raiser friend of ours (Lights, she's your kind of girl--a real hoot and sweet) and told me to set an appointment with her to get her input.
So I have some work to do!
That's it for me today. It's going to be 80 degrees here today, and I want to eat lunch out in the sunshine today. That means I need to get back to work, because I have a lot of work to do before I leave here on Tuesday.
Take care all,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Pardon the pun, but you're right on the money about money. Lúthien was the one who managed all the bills, and I always felt frustrated that I couldn't really do stuff--even stuff for her--without asking her permission. And I'm pretty sure she was unhappy that I didn't do enough stuff for her, either, but it just wasn't any fun for me. Christmastime, she'd go ahead and spend as much as she wanted to spend on stuff for me, but I always had to ask her how much I was allowed to spend on her. And it always turned out to be that she'd spend about 2:1 or 3:1 to what I'd spend. Sure, it sounds great at first blush, but I pretty much felt emasculated by it, and I think she felt underappreciated. I tried arguing about how I needed to have a little more control over the finances, but it never went anywhere. I find myself wondering if we had made a change there if everything else would've followed. But now I don't think I'm ever going to find out.
Hey there Bets....Let me get those sunglasses on since the sun is shinin' here and it is warm and 75! Well I finally caught up through your thread.
I wanted to comment on your MC and your plans. I have to say that I think it is a good decision. I agree w/you about the financial aspect of it and preparing yourself for whatever comes. Actually, the other day when we went to MC we were asked that question and as I noted, my H didn't have an answer. I am not ready to give an answer w/out his input since we are starting fresh here. I want to get some things out in the air first and see where it takes us from there. In some stroke of luck, my GF that recommended him told me that when she started they told him to prepare them for D and LOOK where they are now (happier and having ) so w/that it gives me something to shoot for but not expect.
Since you already have a R w/MC, it should be understandable for him to see where you are coming from.
I know that you will use cautionary judgement w/your words and you know how first-hand how your sit is going.
Since you and H are talking have you recommended any books or resources to him regarding MLC or is it too soon and that would appear pushy? He did mention it so maybe it is an opening worth pursuing..you would know best.
Take care and enjoy the weather. Tootles...............
I believe the word emasculated has come up several times in discussions, though Mr. W. has never used this term. I believe he said it was demeaning.
Money=power. And when one person has more of either one, it usually shows where the control lies.
When we first moved to CO from CA (3 months after we were married), I was unemployed. It was during the beginning of the Gulf War, and jobs were tight back then too. Until I managed to secure some menial jobs with a temp agency, I set up our house and did wifely things like cook gourmet meals and plan dates.
I will tell you that Mr. Wonderful LOVED this time in our life. He had the little lady at home (climbing the walls), making his dinner, kissing him before he left for work, and doing all the chores around the house.
I was a newlywed, and figured that I wasn't working so why not? But then after awhile, my Donna Reed like behaviors became expectations from him. And I was growing clearly uncomfortable with his expectations. I was sort of down in the dumps, because I was interviewing like a banshee and nothing ever came of any of them.
We had moved into a brand new house and I decided to take up silk flower arranging as a hobby. This fell under the category of "useless" in Mr. Wonderful's eyes, and one day, he came home to me, took a look at the checkbook register and exclaimed angrily, "Why are you spending my money on this stuff? I don't like this, so you need to stop immediately."
Spending his money? I had used my last paycheck and the check I got for my vacation balance from my previous job in CA to buy window treatments for the house... things he wanted but didn't want to buy himself. Yet, buying some lousy silk flowers sent him in a tailspin?
Sadly, this was not the only convo we had about his feelings about me and spending HIS money. It pissed the daylights out of me. So much that I vowed to myself when I got a permanent job that I'd never give it up for him just so I could withstand his demeaning comments for a lifetime.
When D10 was born, he did ask me to quit my job. I told him no way, and explained why. He invalidated my observations from the past and said that he wouldn't do that to me again. And because he took me lightly, I was not inclined to believe him.
Money is only a means for us to take care of our family. I don't put a high importance on it (unless I'm about to sign over the house to creditors, which is not the case) and it is a means to an end.
That's why being jointly accountable is so important for us from here on out.
Beren, I now wonder if this was the root of our problems? Or just seem exaggerated because of them? Who knows.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Yes, I remember the days when questions came up in MC and Mr. W. sat there with a blank look on his face and the cat had taken his tongue. Those were the good old days....
I like getting stuff out in the air before problem solving. I'm sure we'll spend a little time here before we dig back into the real nuts and bolts, but it will be okay.
Yes, thanks for realizing that I am not and will not be saying any of this stuff to Mr. Wonderful. He's going to be the brilliant one to come up with the answers, and I'm going to be grateful to hear his suggestions.
After all, any suggestion beats a blank look accompanied with the words I DON'T KNOW. I sure as heck hope that guy died, because I really didn't like him.
As far as the books go, I'm sure that I can come up with some as well as the MC. I'll let him recommend some to him for homework... I always wondered how it was that I got the reading homework last year? Every time there was a recommended reading, it was directed at me...
So it will be nice to have Mr. W. doing some of the researching for a bit. I know he's amenable to it.... after all, he's read the 5LL and took my DB copy early last year. I know I've said this before, but he got to the first chapter where they discussed consequences and he didn't like it. So he put the book away. Typical MLC Mr. Wonderful: Shoot the messenger because the message sucks.
I do hope that this time he WANTS to be there.
As I've said here ad nauseum, I am going to sit back and let him do the talking. It's time for him to catch up and I have time to listen to what he has to say. If he's saying more than a few words, I will safely ASSume that the indifference has been put to bed once and for all.
It's at least 80 outside and I'm still inside. Work stinks!
But it's sure nice when it's time to pay the bills!
Have a good weekend too.... Bets
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Ahhh-- I see now (about the MC). I guess I'm fuzzy on the whole MC thing because my dh claims to have "no idea" what is/was wrong with our marriage, or why he was so miserable he had to leave. I have vague ideas at best. I suppose time will help with that!
Hi UD, as an adendum, I'd like to add that my h's point for having the money/bills divided this way, was that we would fight less over money as money is a huge issue for M people. (Hey that's an old hip hop group!)
So, I was trying to quell the urge to get upset about it. H is growing more understanding all the time (and he thinks this is the way he's been. ??is it just me???), so hopefully, we are moving away from this being an issue.
It really sounds like Mr. W is liking you a lot better!! He's being very cooperative as a dad and saying nice things to you. AND that he HOPED to talk to you!!! yippee!!!
I think you are taking a nice, gentle approach with him about the MC. I think that will be more effective than trying to get him to commit aggressively. Does that make sense? I mean, by you not forcing it down his throat as men seem to resist and run from (and do the opposite ).
) so w/that it gives me something to shoot for but not expect.
).