Last night

[Vanilla]

My view is that WH is deflecting to take the focus off his own behaviour. That is arriving home at midnight when he is M.

On the basis that attack is the best form of defence. You then put the focus on yourself rather than him. Clever tactic of WH, he will keep using it as long as it works. My answer was eventually ' I don't agree let's leave it at that'. When WH persisted ' I don't want to go to that place at the moment, I need to sleep/eat/make bottom burps/go laugh like a drain." Then broken record with a smile "not now" and "I am too tired/hungry/farty bottomed/headached/etc" and "please stop" and "I have asked you to stop"

Then I recorded the convo.

I like Al Turtle on Boundaries and recommend his paper on it, written mainly I think for teenagers, it's very understandable. Well it was to me, and useful tool to explain to others.

V

Absolutely it's a deflection. Arriving home after midnight - to be fair, he was visiting a fellow pastor. They didn't talk about anything serious - it was just a hanging out thing. Not worried about it - but he expected me to be up and wanting to talk with him apparently. I get up around 6AM every morning for work, so staying up real late isn't something I LIKE to do...but will when it's important or I choose to use that time to connect.
I've tried that but his persistency is great than mine I guess.
Crazy stuff, I know.

Depriving a spouse of sleep is a classic controlling tactic.

Let me know if you need a link to the abuse resource thread.

V
V

[ARose]

My view is that WH is deflecting to take the focus off his own behaviour. That is arriving home at midnight when he is M.

On the basis that attack is the best form of defence. You then put the focus on yourself rather than him. Clever tactic of WH, he will keep using it as long as it works. My answer was eventually ' I don't agree let's leave it at that'. When WH persisted ' I don't want to go to that place at the moment, I need to sleep/eat/make bottom burps/go laugh like a drain." Then broken record with a smile "not now" and "I am too tired/hungry/farty bottomed/headached/etc" and "please stop" and "I have asked you to stop"



Then I recorded the convo.

I like Al Turtle on Boundaries and recommend his paper on it, written mainly I think for teenagers, it's very understandable. Well it was to me, and useful tool to explain to others.

V

Absolutely it's a deflection. Arriving home after midnight - to be fair, he was visiting a fellow pastor. They didn't talk about anything serious - it was just a hanging out thing. Not worried about it - but he expected me to be up and wanting to talk with him apparently. I get up around 6AM every morning for work, so staying up real late isn't something I LIKE to do...but will when it's important or I choose to use that time to connect.
I've tried that but his persistency is great than mine I guess.
Crazy stuff, I know.

Depriving a spouse of sleep is a classic controlling tactic.

Let me know if you need a link to the abuse resource thread.

V
V

V, I never thought about this, but my MIL used to call me every night at 11 or later and say "Oh did I wake you up?" and then the phone would be ringing again at 6 am, and she'd say the same thing. If I didn't answer she'd keep ringing every 15 minutes until I finally picked up. I remember I used to complain that I was losing an hour at night and an hour in the morning because of her. Turning off the ringer didn't work because then the answering machine would click on. At one point I was turning off the ringer AND answering machine every night. Telling her that she was waking me up didn't stop her, she would laugh. EVERY night and EVERY morning. This was way back in my 20's when H and I first started living together, H finally stepped in and put an end to that but it went on for a very long time. Sorry to hijack.

[Vanilla]

Fo

Absolutely right, that's MIL with a torture tactic. That's what they do to prisoners of war.

What about the water boarding.

V

[Zues126]

My view is that WH is deflecting to take the focus off his own behaviour. That is arriving home at midnight when he is M.

On the basis that attack is the best form of defence. You then put the focus on yourself rather than him. Clever tactic of WH, he will keep using it as long as it works. My answer was eventually ' I don't agree let's leave it at that'. When WH persisted ' I don't want to go to that place at the moment, I need to sleep/eat/make bottom burps/go laugh like a drain." Then broken record with a smile "not now" and "I am too tired/hungry/farty bottomed/headached/etc" and "please stop" and "I have asked you to stop"



Then I recorded the convo.

I like Al Turtle on Boundaries and recommend his paper on it, written mainly I think for teenagers, it's very understandable. Well it was to me, and useful tool to explain to others.

V

Absolutely it's a deflection. Arriving home after midnight - to be fair, he was visiting a fellow pastor. They didn't talk about anything serious - it was just a hanging out thing. Not worried about it - but he expected me to be up and wanting to talk with him apparently. I get up around 6AM every morning for work, so staying up real late isn't something I LIKE to do...but will when it's important or I choose to use that time to connect.
I've tried that but his persistency is great than mine I guess.
Crazy stuff, I know.

Depriving a spouse of sleep is a classic controlling tactic.

Let me know if you need a link to the abuse resource thread.

V
V

V, I never thought about this, but my MIL used to call me every night at 11 or later and say "Oh did I wake you up?" and then the phone would be ringing again at 6 am, and she'd say the same thing. If I didn't answer she'd keep ringing every 15 minutes until I finally picked up. I remember I used to complain that I was losing an hour at night and an hour in the morning because of her. Turning off the ringer didn't work because then the answering machine would click on. At one point I was turning off the ringer AND answering machine every night. Telling her that she was waking me up didn't stop her, she would laugh. EVERY night and EVERY morning. This was way back in my 20's when H and I first started living together, H finally stepped in and put an end to that but it went on for a very long time. Sorry to hijack.

OMG. Who does that? Trust me, I have my own process I use to work through my feelings, find compassion, let go of my anger and judgment, blah blah blah. But I'm not there yet. Right now I have the desire to find this woman, figure out everything that gives her joy and is most precious to her, and then slowly and painfully destroy them all one by one in front of her until she is broken to her soul and can do nothing but babble incoherently about how horrible she was to do that to you until the end of her days. Well alrighty then, deep breathe, let's start that journey towards forgiveness with your MIL

(now you see why I shoot pool...I have a lot of displaced anger to channel...)

[Vanilla]

Zues

I actually don't believe forgiveness is always useful. Some things should not be forgiven, others maybe but only if the other asks for it and finally it isn't my job to forgive, I leave that to the higher power.

However we can show compassion and tough love. We can consider forgiveness if another asks for it.

I do think shame, guilt and letting go of resentment are models of greatness.

We can feel compassion for some of the jerk stuff we see and hear, these deluded impoverished souls need every ounce of it.

At the end of it all the power is with the thriver.

V

[kyrie]

Thanks ya'll.
I tend to lean toward what you're saying V about forgiveness. Mostly we hear over & over that we NEED to forgive, and there's plenty of truth to that. But I also hear you about *asking for it* - repentance, etc. is a component of forgiveness.
What did you mean about shame & guilt as models of greatness? and what do the 'deluded impoverished souls' need - compassion? Just wanted to be sure I understood you.
Should be seeing the IC today. Not even sure how I want to tackle that... is it to sort out my own feelings or how to deal w/this crap (mostly what I think I should do w/the DB coach) or just how to communicate...ugh.

[trumpet]

Talk, they will listen, and you will get guidance.

IC's that are good will understand that there are dozens of layers to the sitch. Layers to an onion. Peel one back and you find another.
Sorting out your feelings and recognizing the situation from a 1,000 ft perspective is key. A couple sessions in with an IC and I got traction.

Good luck! And listen to what they have to say!

[kyrie]

Thanks Trumpet...
Was trying to get caught up at work before I go, but saw your sitch stuff too. Hope you're well & I'm praying for you. Grace & peace to you.

[trumpet]

Thanks, Kyrie.

Remember, Grace is always there. He gives it freely.

If you truly feel grace, you will follow Him, and do what he says.
You will flee from sin. 2 Tim 2:22

Your husband is sick. His Old Adam has taken over. A sick doctor is in no position to fix patients. Let what he says roll off your back like water on a duck.

Trust that professionals and those who care about you will see what is happening. They will. Open up a bit with them. Expand your circle of influence. You can do this.

[melweb]

Kyrie--not sure have posted on your thread before or not, but "hi." I have followed your sitch and my heart is sad for you.
As I am a newbie, I have no words of advice, just a sympathetic ear.

Our sitch's are not even remotely close but surprisingly some of the replies seem to answer some of my own questions and dilemmas. I love Zues' mission statement, as I am caught up a similar Catch 22. I am going to work on one of my own.
Also, I think V is spot on with this deflection tactic. Somehow, his bad behavior and utter disrespect is my fault. Good thing I see right thru his thin disguise. Well---most days!

At the moment, I am simply keeping my eyes, my ears and my heart open.