Last night

[kyrie]

Kyrie,

Love Sandi's comments.

Getting sucked into his arguments, his spew, is hard. You care about him.

The trick is to realize it takes two to dance. And could you learn a new dance? To dance better? If we boil down all the support you've gotten, my thoughts are this:

Work on yourself. You can't fix your husband. He's got issues. Working on yourself is understanding the situation, getting tools to handle the stress of a husband who has issues affecting the marriage, and getting the help YOU need to be the best Kyrie.

Expressing your frustration is good - keep on posting. I keep up on your sitch, and there is no easy fix. I admire you. You are in it for the long haul. You want to have a family that is a blessing. Let's make sure Kyrie has the love inside of her (for us, it's the love of Christ working in us) first and foremost, for then we can love others. Be honest with yourself. But you're not showing love to your husband by trying to fix him.

My wife tried for 15 years. My addiction never stopped. It took a big event to realize what I was doing. It might take an event like that to have your husband stop. That isn't your responsibility right now - drop those bags.

Breathe. Exercise. Read. Enjoy the kids. PRAY. Be your best. And let the other chips fall where they may.

Thanks Trumpet. Hope you're well today.
I feel like such a failure lately. Nothing I do seems to be right. I feel so desperate for his attention/affection. Getting really jealous of him laughing & playing w/D14... that's kinda messed up. I know I have to detach. Just feeling like I am all those things he says I am: a screw up, prideful, foolish, self-centered. Stupid.
Waaaa. Ok, enough whining.

[kyrie]

Kyrie,

DB tries to help us save ourselves, and our marriages. But please note that in her books and here,

no one is saying that we must save our marriages, at all cost.

I'm not sure how wonderful "saving a marriage" is,

IF what we really mean is to "not divorce", AND to stay in a marriage with disrespect as an acceptable option. Some marriages are not going to survive no matter what One spouse does...

I've still not figured out what your h sees as HIS responsibilities (as opposed to his rights).

You earn the money and you do most of the house work (but apparently not in a humble enough way) and most of the child care...and

You said it has been a pretty long time since you've had much happiness in this m,
and I can see why.

So, Do you believe you, Kyrie, deserve to be happy & respected?

What would be the negative consequences of a divorce from him, which HE has threatened?

Finally, if your h remains as he is now, (which is actually the most likely path), then what are the negative consequences of staying married to him?

"Deserve" is a dangerous word. That implies solely selfishness. It's not giving or selfless - it's demanding.
Should marriages enjoy the blessings that God promises of them? Yes. He also promises it will take our ALL - ourselves, to do it.
His responsibilities...that's a good question. Wonder if I should ask it...interesting!
Happiness is not the point of M. I'm sure you know that. Negative consequences: well that would be strike 2 for me, so that's pathetic, but I'm ok w/that if it comes to it. It's ugly, but I understand it. It would shatter my children and frankly I'd still have to deal w/him all the time when it came to them. I'd have 2 stupid XHs to deal with....ugh. And finally, it would utterly destroy him AND his ministry and most likely my church. I realize that's mostly on his plate, not mine, but still, I do care. Negative consequences of staying M... there are many there too. Soul-sucking hurt I guess. I'm sure there' s more.

[kyrie]

Haven't heard from you guys. I know Fo's thread has been busy & it's a busy day.
Here's an example of our comms:
Texts from H:
I've taken your toxicity (which is my word about him, hmmm) for so many years and rarely did I shut down comms. I listened and I tried. You don't. (all of this is not true)
--Try to validate, let me know what you think of this:
Kyrie: I hear a lot of bitterness, criticsm, and complaints and a lot of things about you. I hear you talk at me (which is what he says I do to him).
H: So?
K: It was wrong for me to do those things - it's not Christian when I did that.
H: You've done that the whole time and I keep trying (really????)
K: (again trying to validate): You're right. I'm struggling and frustrated about that. I also know it's wrong and not helpful.
H: You still do them.
No response.

What do you all make of these types of comms? I've been thinking a lot about Zues's "filter/translator". Maybe I'm just that dense & not getting it. Last night (before these texts) he says all my comms w/him are "annoying" (which is better than the foul stuff he usually spews, but still).

[kyrie]

Another thought:
I keep thinking that if we can break out of the complaint cycle we could move forward. I keep asking him to state things in a frame of what I can DO instead of what he hates. He gets stumped.

[Drew]

I keep asking him to state things in a frame of what I can DO instead of what he hates.

You're getting closer. I think you're both still trying to change the other.

Ever heard of Boundaries?

[kyrie]

Is that a book or do you mean generally, boundaries?

I hear you Drew. He keeps pressing the convo in those directions. So I wonder if there's a way to navigate & encourage the convo to go in better directions. Not to "change him" but to get things on a better track at least.

[ARose]

Kyrie, I really think that your H's spew has nothing to do with you. It is all about his issues, and you are the target. There are two separate things that I think you need to think about.

1- is your H seems to be in the midst of a MLC which most likely has NOTHING to do with you and he needs to work this out in his own way, in his own time. That you can do nothing about. So really you need to not think about as much as just grasp this concept and let God take over.

2- right now you are his target, because you are there. If you can find a way, like it seems like you are trying to do, to reduce the tension and get yourself out of the role of "punching bag" that will help you, and also might force H to deal with his issues in some other way. I think this is where you are heading with your communications, I know that you are trying to break the cycle, and I think that is good. But I want to caution you that if he really is in the midst of a MLC that there is no magic thing you can say or do that will snap him out of it. Just continue to validate and get out of his way when it gets too hostile. Maybe "I know you are trying, thank you for that." Or "Thank you for sharing, your perspective is important to me."

This is hard, Kyrie, I wish I had an answer for you. It is just incredibly hard.

[Drew]

Is that a book or do you mean generally, boundaries?

Both.

[trumpet]

I agree with Drew.

The more you can drop his bags, the better. Kyrie, your walk with God doesn't mean you have to walk in someone else's footsteps on the beach.

My wife and I have had a very negative feetback loop in how we communicated with each other. I have, after some counseling and talking with people, realize have the CAPACITY to be passive-aggressive and sarcastic, looking for the worst in a situation. I often do with my wife, since she's more like that. I can also be very positive. But I really have to work on that with my wife, as we have a groove worn into our relationship that we always revert back to.

I think it's time to make a new groove. You can be loving AND firm in a boundary. Read Boundaries by Henry Cloud. He's also made marriage boundaries and some other boundaries books. You deserve more, and the Lord has much more in store for you, other than your husband's dumping ground. For a person that is a man of God, leading others in God's word, he's way off the reservation, as long as what you're telling us is true. It's unfortunate, but it happens - I'm broken, you're broken, and we all fall short of perfection - sometimes way far off.

You've come to Divorce Busting to get help - and that is very commendable. What I've seen people tell you over the last couple weeks is to work on yourself, and get the help you need. You won't find the help you need in your husband right now - not even close.

You need to find someone to talk to - to help you work through your situation. I would love to keep giving you encouragement and to fight for your marriage - I just feel the issues are so complex that a bulletin board discussion just isn't going to cut it.

[kyrie]

Fo - true, but these issues have always been there. Nothing new (such as the MLC), so it's not right for me to just cast it that way & ignore it.
I keep thinking the only way *not* to be the punching bag is to get away. That can't be the only thing...but it's all I can think of that I haven't already tried. I know, no magic. I keep saying it to him too (which may not be appropriate). It's usuallly in the context of validating & hearing what I DO need to focus on. Maybe when I validate I'm coming across as groveling or something...not sure.
He's not saying he's still trying. He's just saying he's claiming a high moral ground because he used to and is once again hammering me with "you're not trying" (despite that I am). That's one of our huge issues: he feels one way (about something subjective to himself: his feelings about what I am or do) and I know I mean or do otherwise. UGH.
Comms with him are "annoying". lol


Thanks Drew. I've had a dozen book suggestions... could you share a Cliffs Notes version??