Hi Free, I think the most important aspect in all of this is to be able to look at ourselves in the mirror for many years to come and feel truly happy and at peace with our part.
From what you post below, I would question whether you are fully owning your part in all of this. It is true that all cheaters lie and it is also true that many become truly remorseful in time and cannot believe what they did - not all get to that point, but many do. It is best to stay mindful that how you feel now - 'I can never get past this' - may not be how you will always feel and it is good to give yourself enough time to know what you truly want.
Can I ask if you feel your W deserves a second chance, why you would not offer one? And if you are not interested in reconciling, why you are asking her if there is someone else?
The other aspect I'm picking up on is the whole 'my W is an enemy now and we will soon battle in court for high stakes.' I would always encourage people to stand firm on achieving a fair settlement in any D or separation proceedings, but I don't think the combative approach is the right way to go here. Why add that kind of drama to an already difficult situation? Without reading back, I'm not sure if you have children together, but if you do, I would certainly try and keep any proceedings as calm and pleasant as possible. It sounds as though you hope to 'punish' her in court for what she has done. And yes, I'm sure she has made mistakes (as doubtless you have too.) However, your response to those is yours to own.
You say you have zero regret on getting divorced and that is fully on her. Again, I would suggest that in almost every D, both parties have contributed, and it is important to examine this, understand your part, own it and work on that in order that you can hopefully have a better partnership at some point going forward. She also has a part and perhaps her part is bigger than hers, but that is hers to own or not. Part of future health and happiness is also achieving forgiveness - for yourself, for her, for OM and his part in the demise of your M. Again, it may be early days for that, but it is always a place to work towards.
I hope the above provides some food for thought, and I certainly hope you'll see the feedback as constructive. I hope for you, as I hope for all of us, that we'll emerge from this truly challenging time having learned much about ourselves and with richer lives for it.
Take care
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
If her despicable behavior is a deal breaker for you then that is completely understandable and don't feel like you're doing anything wrong if you won't tolerate it. To be honest I'm still not sure I can go on. I hate to show a crack in my reconciliation armor but her infidelity changed me. I notice women now. I really didn't when we had our innocence and were living the great American love story (or so I thought). Well, all innocence is gone now. Now we're grown-ups who see the world unfiltered. We've now joined the modern cynical society. Not only do I not trust her one bit, but I don't trust anyone now. I used to. Now I see her differently. She'll never be on a pedestal again. Once you've fallen from a virtuous pedestal you can't ever get back on one.
I see that she's a middle aged woman who questioned her life so instead of seeking help from those who love her most, instead she lied to everyone, including her children, and her "soul mate". We're working on us together now but when she says things like "we really are meant to be together" I just say stop, that's bullsh!t. There are no soul mates and nobody is meant to be with anybody. That's all romantic fiction. It's not real. People can love each other but at any given moment either one of them can betray and destroy the other. It happens every day. It happened to me. Once it does you can't ever go back to the other side.
Not only did my wife destroy my ability to trust her but she destroyed my ability to trust anyone, or possibly another love interest in the future. That's another thing that changed. I used to not even be able to imagine us apart and me in love with someone else. Now, not only can I imagine it but I think about it more than I probably should. Now when a woman flirts with me or subtly gives me non-verbal signals that she's attracted to me, I notice. I never used to because I was in love with my wife and had zero need to notice such things. Now I notice, I think about it, and I don't know if I can stop that seed that has been planted.
I love to give advice here because if I can help anyone then that makes me happy and not a lot of things make me happy these days. I'm no therapist but I am a survivor of the marriage sh!tstorm. All I can offer is my own experiences and things I've personally seen work and not work. I hesitate to write these things out because my wife reads my posts and hearing some of these things hurts her because she thinks we can get back to the way we were. Maybe we can. I'm no expert here. I'm just learning as I go.
If you're truly decided to move on then you're really ahead of the curve and should be able to recover. This is a time that can be exciting for you. Do whatever you want for you. You no longer have to check with anyone else. It's your time.
Getting intel is not for the faint of heart, is what Starsky says. It is not for everyone, and plenty of men rather not know the details. I have seen it in the LBW & the LBH what Txhubby is experiencing. Even if you are able to forgive the betrayer, the memories are still with you. That old saying about forgiving is forgetting is false. The A changes both spouses. Both of them have their own private hell to go through, plus the one they share as a couple. Piecing is so HARD and the time it takes to fully recover is awful.
I always have huge doubts about these LBH'S who claim they reconcile with their WW, where she shed a few tears and they have sex and seemingly pick up where they left off before the A. I don't buy it. They may go through a honeymoon phase, but eventually, they have to deal with the affects the A took on the MR. It simply is not that easy, I don't care how that person tries to convince the board (and we've had a few over the years). The LBS can be so focused on just getting back their WS, they don't or can't deal with what kind of affect the lies, betrayal, and the A completely takes on them. After some time, it may be revealed just how deeply it has changed your life.
You are very hurt, and it is understandable how anyone would want to retaliate. I don't know the ages of your children, however, you probably have considered how any public outing of your WW & the OM will affect the kids. If not for them, you may not care what happened to her, IDK. Both of my adult children have experienced infidelity in their M's, and it is very difficult for me to keep my opinions to myself.. My grandchildren know in part, and yet, they love that parent and don't want to hear about the sins the parent has committed. They are minors, however, and if they were grown, they probably would know more. Anyway, as Starsky says, they deserve the truth, but at an age appropriate level.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi is 100% correct. My wife had her EA/PA in 2008. We honeymooned after, with no IC/MC, I became very codependent after the "honeymoon" ended and she started drifting away.
I have read this or variations of this so many times in the last few weeks I have been on here.
"She could have told me that she was unhappy. She could have said that we needed to go to MC. Instead, she quietly had an affair while she told me that she was unsure about our M. The truth is, she asked for space to sample life with OM. The whole time that she told me that she was unsure, she was with him. Also, she lied to me. I had asked her if there was an OM soon after BD. She said no. From an outsiders point of view, I look at this and say "of course she lied. Cheaters won't admit what they are doing." From the LBH point of view, my view, I can never get past this. I could never trust her again. I fully understand why she lied, but I choose to not live with that. Does my W deserve a second chance? Yes, but she will not get it. The continued lies, dishonesty, betrayal of trust and lack of remorse will never let me do it. Maybe it was a mistake, but I asked her again today if there was someone else. With the typical blank, cold, non eye contact response, she calmly said no. It just reaffirmed my decision to end our M."
It is a mirror of my sitch. This has been the ultimate betrayal to me, the stranger standing in front of me barely resembles the person I (thought) I knew.
me45,W43 S9,S5 T15yrs M10yrs BD 4/07/15 W wants D 4/07/15 W filed 8/05/15 D petition arrived 21/12/15 Merry xmas, W,S5 S9 moved out 5/2/16
Update. I need some help here. I told W I am done with her and asked her to file. We briefly discussed officially telling our kids that our M is over. We agreed that we need to tell them together, but not on how to tell them. Since BD, every R conversation ends the same way. W ends the conversation by saying she is tired and that we will talk tomorrow. She did it again during our talk about telling the kids. There is never a talk the next day as she avoids it by any means necessary. Now, this is where I need help. W had been sleeping on the couch for weeks. After that conversation (3 days ago), I went to bed. At 3am, W comes into our bed. I politely asked her to leave and she said "No. I want to sleep here tonight". That was 3 nights ago and she has come to bed every night since. Last night, I again asked her to leave. Same answer, only angrier. I can't force her out as I know it could escalate. I do not want to leave my bed either. She still has no idea that I know about OM. It sickens me to be near her and being in the same bed is even worse. Another thing. For the first time since BD, W made me dinner last night. If she wants out so bad, wtf is she thinking?
Me-40's W- 40's Married 22, Together 29 BD#1- 6/15 W needs space BD#2- OM confirmed PA 1/8/16 Still both home, but not for long
Her internal conflict sounds like it's escalating.
Sandi would be a great resource. I'm sure she'll have something to say.
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
My apologies to everyone that posted here in the last few days. Sotto- I fully own my part in this mess. I was not a good husband and, at times, not a good person. That said, I've never not loved my W. I just wasn't good at it. BD#1 shocked me into understanding how I had acted and how I made her feel. I am still in counseling to address these issues and I will probably be there long after D. Believe me, I own my actions and I'll always regret them. As far as reconciling and second chances, I know that I cannot get past the A. I don't know how else to describe it but it is as simple as that. I think I asked her about OM again because her lying reinforces my decision to get out. Seeing/hearing evidence is one thing. Having her repeatedly lie about it to my face cements my thoughts. The combatant attitude is pure anger from being betrayed. They say time heals all. I'm banking on this now. Your feedback is constructive and I do appreciate it. Sandi- Yes, to everything you said. It would be impossible for anyone to quickly reconcile easily after an A and have any kind of lasting relationship. The damage done can someday be forgiven, but never forgotten. I have no doubts that it is possible for some. As far as outing W to the kids, I won't do it directly. It will be a part of my response to D papers. They are all teens or older. I'm not even sure if age is a factor. Divorce and affairs are devastating whether you are 2 or 22. Keefa- Yes. There is not much worse than this. Again, it is disgusting how common this is. I can't help but think that almost every situation is caused by a lack of being able to communicate, listen and understand. This is a very unfortunate way to learn it. TX- You are in a tough situation, but I would suggest to not give up. Why, you ask? Especially coming from someone that essentially gave up? It's not because your W asked for forgiveness and made the attempt to reconcile. It is because you stuck it out after all of the bullsh!t that you went through and you are still there. You made this choice when the opportunity to reconcile presented itself. You did this knowing that the images in your head of your W and OM would never fully disappear. That means something. It means everything. You are on the fence, as you should be and will be for a while. While on that fence, you appear to be leaning heavily towards M. You love your wife. At some point, you will fall off of that fence and into the M side. When you are there, the questioning will go away and the memories will slowly dissipate. Time and patience, my friend.
Me-40's W- 40's Married 22, Together 29 BD#1- 6/15 W needs space BD#2- OM confirmed PA 1/8/16 Still both home, but not for long
Hey Free, I'm here. Sleeping arrangements, there are many solutions. The solution has to support your goal. What is your goal? If it is to get her out of the room but keep her in the house, install a lock on the bedroom door and keep the room always locked. Or you could get rid of the bed and replace it with a single bed. You could replace the couch with a bed for her.
I don't know how you can not talk to her about the OM. I would have talked to her the second I found out. Do you think she is having second thoughts? Maybe she wants to get back together with you? Is that possible? Could you have the OM throw her under the bus? Would she sober up emotionally then? Could you go to OM and tell him to drop your wife now and forever or you are going to HR and threaten them with a lawsuit. If he says your wife will also get fired, look him in the eye and tell him you don't give a $hit but he'll be living with mommy forever.
What do you want? It's not clear to me. If you might want to stay married then talk to your wife. Maybe after she knows the sleeping arrangement will work out. You wanted advice so here is what I would do, talk to your wife, tell her what you know, it''s best for the both of you to deal with it honestly. That's all I got.
