I like that about you JH. I'd prefer someone that knows they are on the edge of losing control and therefor doesn't put bullets in the gun, then someone that thinks they are in total control and ends up finding out the hard way they are not.
It's a tough spot to be but I am super happy for you tonight. I hope you have the opportunity for you to both feel the love you clearly have for each other.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
When I think about you and the anger a few things jump up for me, and they could be completely left field. So feel free to leave them hanging in the ether.
"How do we get past the anger?" My feeling is like all processes related to grief and loss, you have to go through it.
My personal sense it is not your role or job ro resolve H anger. It is his to experience, own and work through. He is pi**ed off and to be honest so are you. So pretending it isn't there and isn't going to come up, is setting both of you up for failure.
My sense is the trick here, is keeping it in check and understanding it has to come out. When I work with kids around managing anger, we never talk to about not being angry, we talk to them about feeling it and figuring out a positive way of expressing it. You have zero influence over H and his anger right now, so best to make the connection quickly that H anger + my spew jacket = closer to reconcilation.
With regard to your anger and position where you choose to place yourselve. Hmmm how to do I describe this. The anger for me is a defense mechanism to , possibly giving up control, being vulnerable to him really hurting you. I mean like breaking your heart in two type stuff.
Please forgive me, my next statement is not to course offense or harm. But is there some connection between needing to defended and strong and in control, because of the abuse you experienced with your last H.
Is this anger a coping strategy never to be hurt or vulnerable to a man again. Is the desire to ensure you are "not walking on eggshells" and "not putting it on the shelf and being ready to deal" related to things you wanted from previous H.
I don't say any of the above to cause you pain. I am respectful the work you have done. I just know that the legacy can pop up in the strangest places.
It is not unusual for women who have experienced abuse in relationships to find the experience of anger a difficult one. Especially seeing it and feeling it in themselves.
I think the anger serves you well right now. Imagine if you put it down, what would you be left with?
Feeling protected Julie is really important, it makes sense, it is necessary. However vulnerablity is also important it creates connection and intimacy. The key is working out how to have both.
I do see you struggle with vulnerablity and the need to been in control of what comes next. Maybe the lesson here Julie is about becoming vulnerable, but feeling protected.
This is all just speculation Julie. Please ignore if it has no value or hits too hard. So not my intention.
You know my feelings for you, and that I would be around with a bottle of wine in hand for a good sit down and chat. I'd be there in a minute.
I like that about you JH. I'd prefer someone that knows they are on the edge of losing control and therefor doesn't put bullets in the gun, then someone that thinks they are in total control and ends up finding out the hard way they are not.
It's a tough spot to be but I am super happy for you tonight. I hope you have the opportunity for you to both feel the love you clearly have for each other.
I think another reason for my righteous rants, is that when I feel like that or think of things that way, there is no longer the risk of being hurt. I feel like it gives me my control back. I can tell myself I am better off and then the outcome is not so hard.
Especially now. In October when he told me no chance for reconciliation, I had given up hope and accepted that I would move on. The worst was over. Now that there is a chance for reconciliation there is also a chance for another wave of rejection and abandonment.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Putting on a spew jacket is funny and makes sense. I guess the pockets would be filled with plenty of validation techniques.
I take no offense and I am not as sensitive to criticism or suggestions as maybe I appear. So please share all. I love honesty.
I think my anger comes because yes it's a coping mechanism to being vulnerable. It gets me through this. I guess I feel that Him being wrong and a "bad person" will make the loss less of a loss.
But I was often angry at my husband before BD. I blamed him for a lot of things, some of it unfair some of it justified. But I think it's also because I don't like dealing with things I feel are irrational. And I am aware that perhaps husband thinks I am the one that is irrational and it's all a matter of perspective, but to me it's not. In my mind, He is irrational and unfair in his actions and words.
If I am in opposition with someone regarding a topic and they can discuss with me or prove to me reasons they are correct. I can honestly say that I will reflect on it and really try to see their point. Take the time and Show me the figures! I have never had the need to save face and push for something that is not true or correct. I have many flaws, but I feel that this is one of my positive attributes. I truly am not afraid to let someone "win" if they are right about something.
When dealing with my husband I feel like he will not show me the figures. He won't take the time to communicate with me. Or when I show him the figures he will deflect and refuse to address..move onto a different argument. I end up feeling frusturated and angry.
I don't know if it's from being in an abusive relationship in past. But I find similarities in this way of arguing and I will give you an example...
With ex boyfriend he would accuse me of outrageous things like having a crush on my brother. Seriously. How can you argue against something like that? And I would try (I was very young) and was so frusturated that he would argue this. It was a way to control me.
Now my husband has never made an outrageous accusation like that to me. But I often feel that I have something that really is white and I am trying to convince him it is white and he keeps saying it is black.
This is a major source of conflict and makes me feel manipulated, and invalidated and yes the dreaded "abused " word.
Please I would love to hear opinions.
When we were having marital issues I had asked him if we could move out of parents and into an apartment. He kept telling me not unless I worked full time, we could not afford it. Kids were only in preschool (2 hrs/ day) and one of them was getting special services. family was not willing to take on extra babysitting responsibilities. Any extra income would not have Covered the cost of daycare. I explained this to him and he told me "other people do it. Figure it out".
Now he tells me that with his child support, if I go back to work full time I can afford an apartment. My take home would be 2,000 Less then our combined income when we were living in parents house. So why is it that he insisted we could not afford to move out of my parents house to work on our marriage but is now telling me I could ? It's in black and white. No argument.
To me the figures say everything. His argument makes no sense. And it enrages me. It leads me to belive that He was manipulating me for legal purposes because what else would explain his rational?
Because I cannot make sense of his arguments I worry that he discussing reconciliation to perhaps get me in a position that would make me legally weak. I don't believe him to have a character like this, but I cannot make sense of his argument above and he cannot/ will not either explain it or admit he was wrong so what am I to believe? It makes me not trust his movies and that makes me ANGRY.
This is just an example. There are other scenarios that are similar...maybe he just can't admit to being wrong?
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
I think it was Sandi but it might have actually been Michelle that talked about the idea that one person's way of working on the M might not be the same as the others.
She spoke of how she was a talker, wanted to talk through problems, thought communication was the solution, wanted to go to counseling, put it on the table, be heard. Her H refused counseling, refused to talk about the issues. She took it as self-evident that mature couples talked through their issues so met his refusal as proof he was a bad husband, and their marriage wouldn't work because he wasn't working on it.
She later learned that her H was growing and working on the marriage- in his own way. And just because it wasn't her way, didn't make it any less real.
I know you get this. I just see this recur many times on these forums. It's easy to assume since we're on these forums we're on some road they aren't. But who knows?
Personally I would bet everything I can beg, borrow, or steal this isn't a move to get you to expose yourself legally. And while he has flip flopped on this one stance, there may be something we're missing that contributed...or maybe simply the priorities have changed, and what was once unaffordable as a luxury is now affordable as a necessity...I don't know.
In the end I think you have to celebrate your differences and know that he brings things you don't that compliment each other when at your best. Just be patient and see if you guys get there again. Good job Julie.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
During our conversation the other night he made a point to say something along the lines that me taking on more of the financial burden and sharing that with him and being more ambitious would make me more attractive to him. This is something he brings up anytime we have had a discussion since BD. I I kept my mouth shut. What I was thinking. Maybe I won't get into that now.
But this is a major concern for him. Why? Do I even need to ask?
Truth is, I had planned on taking on more hours when kids started school. He knew this. I was crystal clear in discussing this with him last year. I wanted more money as well.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Julie, we have some of the same issues. I am tired and don't have a lot to add right now, except to let you know I am reading your posts and will get back to you when I have something to give. Take care Julie, you are asking the right questions and I actually see a lot of hope in your sitch. I will come back to you when my mind is a little more productive. I haven't been around much in the last couple of days. Busy GAL'ing but I'll be back with some support. Virtual hugs and much love to you tonight.
Julie, I am the one who needs to thank everyone for their patience. You are awesome. Wish we could chat IRL. You remind me so much of myself, except a stronger version. Hope you have a great night.
Putting on a spew jacket is funny and makes sense. I guess the pockets would be filled with plenty of validation techniques.
I take no offense and I am not as sensitive to criticism or suggestions as maybe I appear. So please share all. I love honesty.
Lovely Julie,
The sensitivity is mine not yours, I am tentative about giving my opinion and would never want to cause someone more pain, so I buffer my words a little, well maybe a lot. You are one of the most reasoned posters here. I see why you and Zues have such robust discussions and experience each other so honestly and respectfully. There is such respect between the two of you which I have to say I am envious of.
But to your response. I want to have a bit more of think through it. Zues's reflections ring true for me. But there is something else I can't put my finger on. I wonder if you and H are more similar problem solvers than you think. I need to think about this a bit more.
Have you read Mona's posts from yesterday and today.
