Last night

[kyrie]

I will keep my retort short in comparison with how strongly I feel it: I don't believe H's porn use 'requires attention'. Not your circus. Your choices, your boundaries, your behavior...sure. Not his. Interventions, walking away to try to concoct a rock bottom, none of this has anything to do with DB principles. There are a lot of people out there with a lot of advice, but this is a DB forum and I try to make it clear when my advice differs from that of Michelle's.

The question about sex still boils down to the question both I and 25 posted...is porn use something that equates to divorce? It isn't for everyone, so it really is your choice. It IS hard to sort through this when your M stinks, and you have unmet needs, and the road ahead looks impossible. It almost looks like the ticket out so you don't have to deal with this, and you can just find the next marriage.

For me, all I can say is this: Either your partner is irreplaceable, or they are replaceable.

Do you want a relationship with someone that is irreplaceable, and that thinks you're irreplaceable? Or are you ok with a series of 5-10 year relationships that burn bright for a while until they get difficult and don't work out the way you want, so find the reason to bail and find someone else?

Clearly abuse and ongoing adultery is a deal breaker. Just be sure you understand the consequences of the choice you make to lump porn in with serial cheating. Not only will it end your marriage, irreplaceability cannot be replaced, ever.

So...to the sex. If you aren't willing to stay with him, and you look down at him for what he's doing, then I can see why he'd feel it's dishonest. Sex=acceptance/approval/admiration/love for a man, if that's not there then it would feel dissatisfying. Nothing to do with your inability to compare to a screen IMHO. A screen can't give him that. You can. But if you DON'T, then a screen would give him the illusion of something you aren't giving him. If that makes sense. So no, if you're feeling used and he's feeling empty, I don't see the point.

If, however, you decide that he is a great man...not WAS a great man...not COULD BE IF HE...but that NOW, even with his imperfections, he still is a great man, and you want to be his wife, and love him, and support him through thick and thin...then sex makes sense. And if you felt that way, and told him that, that you don't like it, but you love him, and that he's your lifelong partner, and you will die with him unless he leaves you, and if he wants to quit you'd love that and would support him in any way you can, but if he doesn't you'll stick with him to the end, and love him forever, and you'd love to show him that by giving yourself to him in every way you can...I doubt he would find THAT dishonest, and in fact would probably love it. He may not believe it. He may test it to see if he can catch you in an act. But that's what he needs from you, if you are going to stay his wife.

Some of the things you've said here are not what I'm about or experiencing...not trying to argue but I don't think you've got it on some parts. I haven't said anything about divorcing him *because of the porn*. It's an issue, but I know I can't force him to do anything and have to accept him where he is right now. So that's not the issue. I don't want a replacement anyway. If I did D, no replacement. Maybe someday that could somehow change but it's not how marriage should be and who would want a twice-divorced, twice cheated on co-dependent anyway. Well, another cheater/addict, perhaps, but no thanks.
You've made a valid argument that forcing a rock bottom seems like a nuclear bomb - total destruction and outside my responsibilities, etc. And yes, of course I want the irreplaceable - that's what I've admired about your behaviors and views here Zues.
He himself, on some levels, shares the same beliefs. So shame is a big element here. But he has compartmentalized and made a double life - maybe he can live with that forever but he's a good enough man that it's probably eating at him too. But I dunno. I know and accept imperfections - they go with the territory of being human and in a sinful world. I get that. Seeing him self destruct and taking us along for the ride is pretty rough. He knows I'm here through thick & thin (we've talked about how I've accepted that this is where he is right now and if I wanted to D, I would have done so already) - I think that's why he feels free to $hit on me so much. And he knows I'm interested & available - that's really not at issue. So he needs far more...probably more than any woman or person can ever give.