Late to the game

[mutatio]

Free, had a minute and just read your thread. I have a meeting in a minute but will post later. Not filing yet is a good choice. I'm sorry this is in your life. ttyl, be strong

[sandi2]

Sorry to hear about the news of OM. Work on your plan, but do sleep on it some more.

I do not think I can ever get past being cheated on.

Many men have felt that would be the deal breaker, only to realize the love they had was stronger than an A. I'll admit not everyone can or will tolerated the betrayal. Only you get to decide. I just encourage you to not to react strictly out of emotions.

Over the years, we've had friends that cheated on their spouses and both my wife and I felt that if things were so bad, get divorced before you cheat. I still feel that way, but my STBXW apparently does not.

Oh, I was too. Until I became wayward to the point of flirting....then another level, then another. A level at a time, along with her justification that she deserves to be happy, and first thing she knows......she's in an A.

She will probably find out about all of this when she tries to gas up her car. The same car that will have no insurance as of tomorrow.

Word of warning, don't shoot yourself in the foot. Be careful about insurances, etc. If something were to happened while it was uninsured, you might be held liable, IDK.

It's time that we speak to our children. When I've brought this up in the past, W refused. I will speak to them without her. They are all old enough and they can see what is happening here.

I understand, but stop and think how you would feel if she beat you to the punch.....and gave her version of it. You can tell them the truth, but both of you should be there when it's said. Otherwise, you are starting a battle you may regret. I know you see your W's A as starting it, but I mean another battle ground with the kids in the middle.

Please don't tell the kids that everything will be okay. I realize you want to assure them, but you've already told the oldest that things would be okay.....and it wasn't. Daddys are just human and he can't always make everything work out. The family life they have known will cease, once the D is final. So to them, everything will definitely not be okay. Just try to be honest with them and tell them at an age appropriate level.

Be very careful where you place blame. Don't protect your W, by taking all the blame, b/c your children could have hard feelings toward you for the rest of their lives, thinking you were the cause of the D. She is the mother of your children.....so just be careful how you say things. Don't paint her as harlot, although that may be your feelings at the time.

[trumpet]

Free,

When I first discovered the EA, I blew it up immediately. Couldn't control myself. Also, that day I started working on my addiction.

When I discovered my wife still in the EA, about a month and a half later, after saying she was done, it was different. I was calmer, and after reading DR, and practicing detachment and validation, expressed that I knew everything (which I did - spying on her phone), and that I wouldn't live in an open marriage, and that whatever she was planning, that I hope she was happy, and that I'd be fine.

That put her on a spin that ended up with us both committing to reconcile in the last 48 hours. After she filed the D, but I haven't been served. WOW.

I'm giving you the advice that I think you already know - get your feet underneath you, and get to the point where you can rationally, calmly tell her the same thing I told my wife, and be able to walk away. If she's as cold as you say she is, she'll either continue to be as cold as ice, or your statement will snap her out of it.

Anger at her, and yelling, or any confrontation will just reinforce that her coldness was the right technique that she began months ago to cope with the stress of what she was doing.

[Free]

Hey Vise. Thanks for checking in. You are so right about past BD's making things easier. I'm recovering from the latest one much better than the first.
I did drop the rope, meaning that she can do what she needs to do without it affecting me. I am doing things for me now with NO expectations.
One of her complaints was that I was selfish and self centered. In many ways, I was. Now, I have to be that way for completely different reasons.
In starting over, I slept last night. I hadn't slept more than an hour since Friday.
It's a start, I guess.
I'm still debating if I should confront W about OM, or just carry on with being the best I can be. Or both??
W still has no idea that I know about it. FYI, a friend of mine works in the vicinity of where W works. He called me to tell me that he has seen her with OM in the area and there was hand holding. I went there and saw it for myself. They are definitely not just friends. W continues to go to and from work every day, so I don't know if they see each other outside of work. I'm sure there is extensive texting going on.
If you or anyone else has any advice on this, please let me know. Not sure if I should just sit on it for a while. I don't know if bringing it up would make a difference either way.

[Free]

Sandi, all good points. I held off on all of the first reaction stuff I had on Friday. Cancelling insurances and things like that. It was all based on bad emotions. You are right in the levels of A. I don't know where she is in the A, but she is on the path to a full blown A. If everyone at work knows you are married and you can openly hold hands with a coworker, inhibition is definitely going away or gone.
Trumpet, I cannot begin to tell you how happy I am for you. I've been keeping up to date with your sitch and I don't know if what worked for you will work for me. Your W was never as cold as mine. Of all of the current threads, Mutatio's W is closest to mine. I read an email from W to my child's teacher that was sent before BD. Just days before. In that email, she referred to me as her husband. I read a recent email to a different teacher. In this one, she referred to me as "Katie's father". I am no longer her husband, in her mind.
You are correct when you say that to have that discussion, I need to be ready to walk away. The OM situation has pushed me to that point. I just don't want to rush based on emotion as I've seen my emotions change over the last few days. I do need to settle down and come to definite terms with being able to walk away with no regrets. Unfortunately, I'm almost there.
As I asked Vise, would you recommend bringing up the OM to W?

[trumpet]

Free,

You're doing better than I did. I congratulate you.

I'm all for blowing the affair open, but only calmly, and stating your boundary (for me, it was not willing to be in an open relationship).

So far, she thinks you have put up with her double-life.

Sandi would have much better words of wisdom for you. I just know going full-on Bull-in-a-china-shop doesn't work well.

Go in with your end-goal in mind. Saving the relationship? Don't burn your bridges in the first 5 minutes. Don't use righteous anger to drive your wayward wife to the brink right away. You want her actions and feelings to convict her.

You must be strong enough to walk away. If not strong enough, at least strong enough to separate to work on yourself.

Sandi, mutatio, et al???

[Free]

Thanks Trumpet. Throughout this whole process, I haven't blown up on her at all. There won't be any bull and china shop here. That's the biggest reason I stayed away from W this weekend.
If I bring it up, she will want to know how I found out. I'm sure she will deny it otherwise. I have asked her before and it was always denied. Asking her and telling her I know are very different. Intuition tells me that if I confront her, she will blow up because I snooped. I probably shouldn't care about her reaction at this point.
Good point about strength. I am strong enough to separate and work on me. I know a D wouldn't kill me, but I keep thinking two things. Did I do everything that I could possibly do to save my marriage? The answer is no. Not yet.
If it ends, I need to be able to know that the answer was yes to that question.
The next question is how? I know about GAL and DBing in general, but it's the tough love to a WW that I have a problem with. I need to take the chance to show her a loss or two without backing down from it.
Like I said, there aren't many W on here as cold as she is so its hard to predict anything from prior experience.
One other thing I want to throw out there. In the last few weeks, W began sleeping on the couch more often. Now it's 5 nights in a row. Since the MBR is now mine alone, I did a little redecorating. Added some pictures of my kids and family to the room. While out yesterday, W moved all of my pictures and placed pictures of her and her family in front of them. There is now an almost poster sized picture of W right in front of my bed. I want to move it but I also want to keep the peace.
I know. Keeping the peace is probably my biggest DB issue.
If she wants out of the room, and the M for that matter, why place a giant life size picture of her face in front of me?

[mutatio]

Hi Free, I feel for you brother. I have so many things to say after reading your thread I will forget half of them. First, do NOT move out of the master bedroom and do NOT move out of the house. I said to my wife the first week this $hit storm blew into my life, if you don't want to live with me move out I not going anywhere. No discussion, just fact, not yelling, calm determined look. Some things I'm good at and others I stink. I have a great story on how I made sure my wife's EA/PA couldn't survive if you want to hear it. I have to be honest, I would not be strong enough to not talk to my wife about her PA, I would be compelled to talk with her. The longer it goes on the stronger their bond develops. Is the OM married?

Now is a time for deep thought on your part. What do you want? Is the PA a deal breaker? Can you live with this betrayal? I am happy to share my feelings about these questions but not before you answer. You have to decide what kind of picture you will paint. You referenced a child in a post, how many do you have and how old? gender doesn't matter.

I would not quit yet. You made me smile with this comment "there aren't many W on here as cold as she is". I'm going to sleep ttyl.

[Free]

Mutatio,
To answer your questions:
-I am not going anywhere. If W wants out, she needs to get out.
-I would love to hear how you killed her A please.
-I don't know anything about OM, other than they work together. There are literally hundreds of people that work there and I know none of them.
-I'm not even sure how to bring it up at this point. I'm so used to avoiding any R talk because the last few did not go well. This clearly is my weakness.
-Is it a deal breaker? I think it is for me. Maybe its too soon to say, but I don't see any way I could trust her again or even if I want to.
Many of my friends throw around the phrase "It's cheaper to keep her". While that is very true, I do not want to stay married to someone that I cannot trust. After what I saw on Friday, a million things rushed through my mind. One of those thoughts was an incident a few months ago with W and her cousin. They were talking about one of those Las Vegas commercials. When I walked into the room, the cousin looked at my W and said "deny, deny, deny!". Then they both started laughing. The A was probably already underway at that point. There are many things that have been said by W that I cannot dismiss, especially now.
So, in short, my answer right now would be yes, it is a deal breaker for me.
-My kids are 21, 17 and 14.
-There are plenty of threads on here with WW or WAW and in a lot of them, the W is nowhere near as cold as mine. They will still do things as a family. Meals, holidays, etc. Not mine. There is no hello, good bye, good morning, good night. If she knows that one of the kids needs something, she will ask a neighbor. Even if I'm home.
W separates my clothes from everyone elses and will not wash them. She will throw out what is left from dinner so there is nothing left when I get home. W removed every picture of me in the house and replaced them with her family. One exception... About 6 months ago I had some dental work done. That same night, we had reservations for dinner because my S was leaving for college the next day. Needless to say, my mouth was a swollen numb disaster and I could not eat. W asked the kids to stand around me and she took a picture of all of us.
Lo and behold, when she replaced all of the pictures in the house, the picture from the restaurant surfaced and was placed front and center in the living room. For lack of a better term, I looked like special Ed. I think I was actually drooling in that picture.
That was the only picture of me in the house. It lasted 1 day and I threw it away. Frame and all.
Sleep well Mu.

[mutatio]

Your situation is more difficult then mine. I'll tell you what I did tonight, I don't have enough time and the caffeine has not kicked in yet. My kids are 23,20,16 but I'm older then you. You still have half your life to go. My BD was 1 year ago. I am living like this until my wife comes around or my son graduates from high school, 2.5 years. Your youngest is 14, that's a long time to do the same thing.

Until your wife ends her PA you cannot reconcile. At this time your only effective choice is to work on yourself. Ponder how you can get more data on OM. Is there a company directory with photos? Can you afford a private detective. It might not matter if it's a deal breaker. Trust is big. I trusted my wife after 2008 because we worked on the marriage, now I trust her but I get anxious because the marriage has unraveled. I do know one thing , in 2008 we should have gone to MC, we didn't and that's why I'm here now. If this turns around for you, insist on MC.

I think Sandi's advice is brilliant and you should follow it. Make your life and the lives of your children filled with joy and beauty. Heal and improve yourself and please believe your life will be better in the future regardless of the marriage because it will be.