Battles of the sexes?

[JulieH]

Nate, that is me as well. I was never disloyal to anyone and I expect it in return. I have no proof that husband had an affair. To be honest, if I found out I would not be capable of forgiving and staying married. Especially if you combine it with the money hording. in a way that would have given me closure.

I think that If he does not make more of an effort it is going to be too late. I am not a bad catch (except for the living with parents thing). He has proven what type of character he has, so I don't feel like I would be losing anything. In a way, my sons spend more time with him now then they ever really did before. I actually get more of a break now then before.

Husband just sent me a pic of kids with MIL at a bounce house. This is what he wants out of life? Family time with the kids, him and his mother???? It's so hard for me to hold back the comments on this one. I just sent a smiley face. Thank god for smiley faces.

[JulieH]

I frequently go through this phase when kids are gone... Looking for closure phase. Still staying patient but need to vent so I dont say anything I shouldn't.

[NateG79]

Same. When my daughter isn't around, that's when I struggle with the limbo. I go out and GAL when I can. At home though it's harder. I live in a home that was decorated and furnished by WW. Everywhere I look is a reminder. Everything here is owned. Everything she has is rented. I've taken down all pictures that show us as a family and put them in the closet. I've eliminated as many reminders as possible. I don't even know that I want W to make an effort anymore. I can't stand her confusion. I don't ask what she's thinking, I haven't really talked to her in about a week. Just in passing when we call to tell D2 goodnight. We had so many plans for next year. Moving to a new city, starting in a better place. It almost baffles me how much my WW wanted to get out of her hometown again, and here we are stuck. And the really confusing part, she tells me she still wants to move to the other city, but she doesn't have the money or means to on her own. Now THAT'S a mind *$&%.

[Ancaire]

Julie - I really feel for you. You're in a rotten place with him seemingly satisfied with the status quo. Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're determined to DB, right? The sad truth of that is that patience is required - there is no way around it. I know you know that, but sometimes just hearing it again helps.

I'm not sure I'd place too much emphasis on his wanting to switch the kids for Memorial Day. I don't think it's a statement saying, "We definitely won't have R by then." It's more a "just in case" kind of thing. He's just thinking ahead. It was just a request - nothing to get concerned about.

That is how I would choose to look at it. Any other way, and as you are aware, it could cause anxiety and stress. Why borrow any more concern right now? I am learning that so much of our situation is determined by the way in which we frame things to ourselves. We can look for positives or negatives in any situation...so thankfully, in that regard, we've got quite a bit of control about just what we're going to worry about.

And, as always, we can vent here, and get it off our chests, which is sometimes all we need to do to feel better and let it go. Right?

[JulieH]

Ancaire: i don't know how determined I am anymore. You nailed it. He is satisfied with the status quo.. He's got mommy cooking and cleaning and taking care of kids for him every other weekend. He comes and goes as he pleases. Now he is finally paying child support, but still doing great because he had it set up so that we were living with my parents when he left!

This is what he wanted our whole marriage. To come and go as he pleased without me getting upset. Do you remember how my big complaint during the marriage was that he would sleep till 2 when kids were little and then wake up and run errands for his car or for his mother. He missed picking up kids from preschool multiple times because he was sleeping at noon. His big complaint was I did no service things for him and didn't go back to work full time.

I'm sorry more venting.

You are right. The comment about Memorial Day means nothing. If we were together he would have told me in advance. It helps so much that I am going away too! There are some other positives for me and I think if I can wait this out husband will prefer to reconcile. I will set a time line though.

[ARose]

Julie, just want to say that my SIL already warned me that if H and I D, the IL's are buying a house in this neighborhood and letting H move in so they can "have" my kids during "H's" custody days. And they will push him for 50% custody, even though for the last 15 years he spends maybe an hour or two a week with the kids. But he would have live-in child care so he might just get it. And I have already heard from 2 sources that the IL's are taking my kids for spring break this year. Not going to happen, I already have plans. But it sure doesn't help when you have IL's enabling a grown man this way.

Sadly, we both have H's being enabled by their parents to walk away. Of course, you can imagine what the IL's believe is really going on. It is sad. I can not imagine my parents doing anything but encouraging me to fight for my marriage and make things right. Then again, if I spun a good story for them, who knows.

The thing I keep thinking about, is how do I make sure that my children, especially my sons, don't end up repeating this dynamic with their own families some day? Of course it they come to me in 30 years crying about their w, I will not respond the same way the IL's are. I am hoping that by having a strong independent mother will be enough to teach them resilience and family values? I guess time will tell.

[JulieH]

My mother would never have let my brother leave his family to move in with her unless his wife was unfaithful.

I am sure husband told his mom that I pushed him out because that's what he says to himself. His mom knows this wasn't true and gave me all this advice t and revealed her own issues to me. but it's her son. I know how these things go.

My MIL brought kids to store after Christmas and let them pick out presents for me because no one did that with them. MIL also gave me Christmas gifts. I appreciate her bt at same time I feel like she has enabled everyone her whole life and that is part of problem I am dealing with.

Fo talk to lawyer to figure out what to do now so you don't have to worry about 50/50 if it does come to that. I felt that way too. How horrible to divide kids up with in laws.

[ARose]

Julie, I have some things that I can't discuss on this forum that will work to my advantage. I wish I could talk "off forum". Time is on my side, and H seems to be not making any decisions right now anyway. I am not too worried. Sickened by the whole concept and whatever "scheming" might be going on, but also confident that the situation has stabilized at least temporarily and like I said, time is on my side with this issue.

[JulieH]

Yes. I understand that and can see how it would be Fo.

[Zues126]

Julie, I thought about posting this on my thread but here will do. This isn't all aimed at you, it's been building up for the last few weeks or months. And it isn't necessarily "DB Guidelines", rather just my feelings. And my feelings are just that, reactions to different things based on the perspective I happen to have at this moment. But I'm sharing. There is no judgment here, this is about me not you or anyone else.

There are a number of things I'm seeing in different threads that is starting to impact me. I mean, I'm getting physically upset reading some of the stuff. I'm letting it bring me down. I so strongly disagree that it impacts my day. What are these things? Believe it or not, it is some of the LBS's behavior. Oh, we know that LBS's need to vent, but that's not what I'm talking about. So here's what is getting to me:

1. Lack of commitment. I am sick and tired of us LBS's talking about how they feel (or DON'T feel) towards WAS as a reason to no longer want R. When WAS left because of their feelings it was a betrayal, end of the world, how DARE they?!? When LBS doesn't feel like standing anymore it's no big deal. I want to throw up, and that is not a figure of speech.

2. Criticism and controlling behavior. Venting about WAS's behavior is fine. This means blowing off some steam so we're prepared to focus on something we control, such as how we react to that behavior, how to set boundaries, how to detach, etc, etc. Continued focus on WAS's behavior to AVOID our own behavior, through criticism, judgment, re-writing our own history, it's just fatiguing. And when it comes to trying to change WAS's behavior through letter writing, interventions, R talks, punishment, I just get down. It brings me down a little to see this. I'll add 'diagnosing' to this, because lord knows all of our WAS's are bi-polar, borderline personality, with bad influences from their parents, and lifelong issues, and narcissism, and addictions, and were always terrible partners.

3. Impatience/desire for new partner. This is marriage. This is family. DBers are supposed to place value on that beyond price. Yet there just seems to be a hurry to get out of the spot we're in. Yes, it stinks. It stinks to not have your needs met. It stinks to be lonely. It stinks to be in pain. This is the universe communicating there are things we need to learn. And this is God asking us to step up and serve Him and our spouse in a way deeper and more wholly than we did in our failed relationship. Yet the LBS's, if we can't control the outcome, if we can't control our spouse, if we can't control things into a M that gives us what we deserve, then what's the point? It's all about us, right? And the desire for a new partner? Wat? Seriously? We are married! Why is it ok to even entertain ideas of new partners? Because our spouse is confused? How would we like to be sick in the hospital and find out that our spouse, the one that was supposed to love and protect and nurture, was busy getting their online dating profile updated 'just in case' we didn't pull through. Nice.

Julie, you're one of my favorite posters. You've steered into the heart of some of the most painful waters you could in an effort to do what's right. Maybe you did so with expectation of being rewarded with the M you wanted when you wanted it and are feeling a bit betrayed. I don't know. But when I read your posts I just want you to slow way down. You are married. Your H has flat out talked to you about how to go about rebuilding a new M. And you are talking about pulling the plug, timelines, and who you'll rebound with? C'mon Julie. You didn't do all the hard work to throw it away now. Instead finish the job, do even harder work, let go of those expectations, drop the resentment and focus on H, love him silently, serve your marriage, and be happy and patient.

What's the difference between a WAS and an LBS? What they do when there are no more positive feelings and the marriage no longer looks attractive.

I don't even want to read my old threads. I'm sure I did all of this crap. I don't want to read it. I don't. It's ugly. It hurts me to think about. I almost got to the point I couldn't read DB forums but I don't want to just disappear so I thought I'd just put it out there. My issue, I know the rest of the world is going to do it's thing, I have to deal with it. That's why I say this is about me. I AM upset by all of the D's in this country, and these things just look like more of the same sickness. But I'll be ok. I'll figure it out. I just really hope people can step up and lead their family through these crisis and not succumb to the pain they experience.