Zues, I think arranged M can work in cultures where they are the norm and the surrounding community supports it, but I wouldn't want it personally because I was not brought up that way.
And we should have these conversations with prospective partners!
Max, you make a great point. I don't know how I wsould have felt if H had only had a one-night stand.
I'm glad the advice is working for you! I would add that for me, non-sexual affection is what makes me open up to my H. I need to feel that he wants my mind and my soul before I want the physical part of the union. I can have sex, but ML happens when we are connected emotionally first.
So to me, ML is the most special experience, while sex is the basics. It can be fun or it can be just a release, but it's usually more physical than emotional.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Basic sex vs ML? I think, for the most part, women are just wired differently in this regard. For a female, ML is all about the connection. In a very real sense a woman is the one who has to "give in" so to speak. There is a huge trust element involved as a result.
There are some women who enjoy a no-strings attached, dirty, raw sex - but they are in the minority, I think. Most of us would only consider doing something like that with the man we're connected to, the one we only ML with, and again - it's all about the connection and trust.
Men like sex. Period. I've never gotten the impression it was all about the connection for them. I'm not a man, so I'm not sure about this - but it seems that for a male, any sex is good sex. A female? Less so.
The closer she feels to her partner beforehand, the better the experience is going to be for her. I think this is why many of us have difficulty framing it as "our duty". Without a connection, it's just dull and empty - almost like being used. Why on earth would we want to do that? So, we've done our best to tell our partners what we need from him in order to look forward to it as well, and some of us have lazy husbands who don't even try to understand our point of view.
Consider that females have different levels of orgasm. Sometimes, we can get a 10, if the man has put in enough effort making us feel loved, special, and sexy. On average, we get a 5-7. Duty nights, we're lucky if we get one at all.
Men, on the other hand - from what I understand, every orgasm is a 10. That is a huge difference in the quality of the experience. I think if more men understood even this significant difference, they might make more of an effort.
Everything Zues has made sense, and it's truly refreshing to hear from a male's point of view what the fuss is all about. I know he gave me plenty of food for thought, as far as what H needs...it's just really frustrating, because if I want to enjoy the experience, too, I'm going to have to put in a lot of work getting myself "excited" so that maybe I can reach a 5, if H isn't willing to put forth a little effort to seduce me beforehand. Otherwise, it's going to be a big fat zero, making me feel used and unappreciated.
Maximus, So glad things are working out better for you. You were able to put my suggestions in much better words, but that is the jist of what I meant.
I think I am understanding Maximus differently though. As a female, I would much rather have hot dirty sex with my husband then ML with husband. To me the physical feeling would be better. But to get to that place, I would need to feel like I myself am the object of lust. I think even if we were fighting and had resentment, if my husband desired me that way and showed me that desire I would reciprocate. I think good sex would actually help with a lot of the resentments. It would help to see how ridiculous it is to fight over something so insignificant (mopping floors, running late) when you could give each other that type of pleasure.
I certainly would not want it to feel forced or unnatural or an obligation and I believe that if it has that feel to it, eventually a woman would lose the desire.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
People here are separating sex from ML in that sex is without feelings and ML is. Also one is with your partner and the other a random.
The thing is that I meant both with your partner.
One is romance and tender. The other is raw, nail scratching, sex against a wall type action.
I know that for many sex is the Saturday event to get out of the way for some and the gulp how do I initiate for others.
What I am proposing is that sex in a marriage be both. Romantic tender candle lit dinner sometimes. Other times clothes ripping hot & dirty.
I have known some women to be more in love with love itself than the forms of expressions. They read fantasy books and imagine bicep bulging alpha males to wine and dine them. The thing though is that after the dining part the macho man wants hot and dirty and not "lets go to bed and snuggle until the morning". Some women are also the laid back and let hubby get on with it type. For a man this is a killer. Having had active partners literally forcing me to stay on my back there is nothing more passion killing than a woman who just lies there like a plank of wood. I even had one who had something similar happen to her hair like in the movie "something about mary".
I think a lot of marriages are lacking the passion they once had. They went from the kitchen table to die in the bedroom.
They went from kamasutra to missionary.
How many women who have read 50 Shades Of Grey have actually spiced things up with their spouse or tried to?
I do not understand the fantasizing in a book and then complain that they have a boring sex life without trying.
For men i think it is pretty simple. We watch an erotic movie or a porn flic and pretty much want to try it out. Granted neither we or our spouses may be as flexible in some positions but hey ... give it a go at least.
Another thing about hot & dirty is that it is more frequent. We do not always have the right time, desire, the romantic dinner preceeding, the planets are not always aligned, our horoscope does not recomment it to have romantic and tender. Sometimes seeing your spouse in the shower or getting un/dressed should be good enough to let go of our impulses.
In short, I think within a marriage we should have both sex and ML to keep the flame lit.
I'm so sorry. I'm changing topic. But just temporarily to vent ok? We can go back to sex talk anything
I am feeling very discouraged about the timing and how to proceed in my situation. Husband texted me to ask about switching weekends for MEMORIAL DAY! To me this means he has no intentions of working on reconciliation and right now I am wasting time. ( I lied on the forums about some logistics in my situation so if husband ever did look he might skip past my post. So to me time is crucial ).
I did accept his invitation to movie party with kids. We made polite talk. One thing that stood out was he told me about how friends of ours who were separating are now pregnant. Unless he is oblivious and just making conversation (some men might not realize) this obviously would impact me, as prior to our marital breakdown I had been diagnosed with ca while pregnant and lost pregnancy. Afterwards I was desperate to conceive again and it added to our marital tensions. So I don't know why he would tell me this. I just politely remarked "oh. I thought they were separated" and that was all. He was also texting me about some funny movies and actors, so this is a positive sign and he informed me about trip he is taking to see his cousin which is also positive sign since his secretive last trip cause fights.
Anyway I am discouraged by Discussion of Memorial Day and even more so, my living arrangement... Being in limbo is affecting everything and I would love some advice...
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
So being in limbo puts a big hold on my work status, my living arrangements and with moving on to new partner. Would love advise on this. I love working and I have a great job. But am only part time. I am basically afraid to return to work full time. Once we legally separate or divorce I can get my life back, take on more hours etc.
When I went to attorney he told me that husband could not have put himself in a better situation. We were living with my parents (with our combined income this was absolutely not necessary, but our plan was to maximize savings) so when he left he was responsible for nothing. Living with my parents is Awful and embarrassing. husband and I both have professional jobs with skill sets so it makes little sense, except for the fact that we live in the most expensive region of the country and wages do not reflect this. I get a lot of help from parents, but it is not an arrangement I am happy with. Quite frankly, it is not fair to them either. They did not sign up for his. They thought they were being helpful and were not expecting husband to just up and leave. Today I was quite depressed about it all.
It is hard for me to view husband positively. With infidelity a walkaway spouse is betraying his/her spouse. The way my husband left and hoarded his money I feel like he betrayed not just me, but the kids, and my parents as well. I think this is why I have an easier time with the concept of just moving on. Husband burdened my retired parents and feels like they owe it to me to help out. He doesn't think he is responsible for support.
Where I live, his child support payment would not even cover an illegal basement apartment in a subpar school district.
I want to communicate and just ask him directly. To me 6 months is long time and then another 6 months on top of it. Too long to out my life on hold, no? Even if he did want to reconcile, his selfishness and slowness in this whole matter would be very hard for me to understand and forgive. So why delay the inevitable? I don't know anymore. This is something I have been struggling with.
My friend told me "you want him to have cheated because then it becomes easy for you". I still don't know if he did, but am thinking no.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
That last part is what I also struggle with. Why delay, why be indecisive? Why do I have to have life on hold for WW? I know that I'm "moving forward" without her. But, closure is better. I detest unresolved outcomes.
Me:36 W: 27 D2 T10 M:2.5 Filed D 1/14/16 BD: Sep 15 A Discovered: 11/17/15 She moves out 11/19/15
Nate and Julie, I often feel like I need closure as well, I just want an answer and being in limbo is really hard. But then I think, I can wait a little longer for the sake of my marriage and children. If I end up divorced, I don't want to ever wonder "would we have worked it out if I had waited just another 6 months?" I understand at some point this becomes unhealthy. But if you don't want to be divorced, then its in your best interest to be patient and let time reveal what could happen.
I do see that point Fo. I've said before, I won't have the blood of my family being destroyed on my hands. That's her cross. I'm getting to a point now though, since BD in September, that I just don't want her anymore. I wish she would just give me a mercy killing. I love my little girl, and I hate that she may grow up with a broken home, but that's not up to me. My mom keeps saying, "someone had to fight for that little girl" I always reply "what do you suggest I do?" We had been somewhat friendly recently, but then I had reason to suspect there's now an OM2, and something inside me just shut off. I don't see her in a positive light. I don't find her attractive. Her desperate need to fill her holey bucket of a heart with physical gratification is just a turn off to me now. I had every opportunity on many occasions when I was in the music industry to cheat on her relentlessly, but I never did. I even told her once, no matter how bad it is between us, you will never find someone as loyal and dedicated as I am. I had a great role model in my own father.
Me:36 W: 27 D2 T10 M:2.5 Filed D 1/14/16 BD: Sep 15 A Discovered: 11/17/15 She moves out 11/19/15
