Two months ago my wife surprised me with a petition for divorce. There was little warning to this however I did notice over the holidays a lot of depression on her part. I responded to the petition with a request for reconciliation and court ordered marriage counseling, which we are in now. The reconciliation at that time (one month after filing) was refused. To the best of my knowledge, she has not had an affair and there are no problems with alcohol, drugs or other abuse issues.
After only a few sessions, there appears to be some progress. The counseling appears to be working to some extent and I am attempting to use the 180-degree ideas and not mention any of our relationship problems. She has asked for (in counseling) for me to back off and give her some time. How long does this take? I do not think she has thought about this divorce process but I know that for this to be salvaged, I have to make changes. Problem is, which ones? How do you approach the spouse and ask for changes without getting into her space? When this process started, I pursued her with flowers, gifts, etc., chased her and asked for her to reconsider and all this did was push her away more.
Being a guy, I want to solve the divorce problem as soon as possible and concentrate on improving our marriage. I am not sure what her intentions are now. I do not know how interested she is in saving it or destroying our marriage yet but at least she has not moved out and is in counseling with me. Ironically, there are some nights when you would not even know we have a divorce case in family court. Most nights we have dinner together. There are so many mixed signals. How do you know if she has a depression problem that needs to be addressed by a DR?
Welcome! I hope you receive what I'm going to say the way I'm hoping you will.
Sounds like her counter to your counter proposal was just to attend MC with you. This doesn't mean that she actually wants to work on things. It looks as though she's keeping the door open with her foot just because she can say "I'm in MC, what more do you want from me?" But at the same time, is not taking an active stance on reconciliation.
That being said, I'm afraid you're going to have to hear these words repeated ad nauseum: Back off and be patient.
While you're waiting, read as many books as you can on how to better yourself. You haven't mentioned, but have you read DR? Memorize it. Mars/Venus is also a good read, as are The 5 Love Languages and The Four Agreements. There are tons of excellent reads out there for you.
Even if she is depressed, I don't recommend suggesting this to her. You will be considered an enemy and she won't likely appreciate your armchair psychology. If the MC feels that she is clinically depressed, he or she will mention it.
So you said you know you need to make changes and wonder where to start.... Well, what are her chief complaints about you? Whatever she says the most often is the one you really want to work on.
For instance, my H hated my nasty temper. I have reformed, and will put 100% of my effort into not losing my temper when I feel threatened. It's made his reentry into my personal life much safer.
What do you think?
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I didn't see any changes in my H until I backed off and let him have the space that he was asking for. There is a reason they ask for space and it's not because they are trying to be cruel to us. As much as that is hard to see.
Good luck, and keep us posted. Read the BB thoroughly, you will find some situations that are similar to yours but are farther along. It will help you to strike up a repoire with those people also.
I have read Gray's books, Venus and Mars plus the first DB book and am on the second one, Divorce Remedy now. All say the same thing which is very hard, back off. You have no clue how hard this is! I don't really know how serious she is on reconciliation or not and there is no way to tell yet.
The MC has not mentioned the depression word yet. In fact, the sessions I thought went well. The first one was curious and when we got to the end she said to the counselor she wanted a divorce and the counselor got her to see if the counseling would work. Last week after the counselor had independent sessions with us and then got us back to gether for a joint session, he said he wanted to do six more sessions and see how things went. She immediately agreed this time instead of being reluctant.
Indepentently (several weeks ago), she also said she wants to see actions from me, changes. The backing off was the first changes she wanted to see.
I guess this is the first step. Backing-off is so very hard to do as I want to fix our marriage and get us back together. To me, divorce is not an option but how long does it take for her to tell me what her real intentions are?
Yes, most of us here understand how hard this is. There is no set formula for how long it takes for our seeming-to-want-out spouses to make some decisions.
The best way for you to help while she's on hiatus from your M is to improve yourself. And I mean focus on this as a goal for yourself so that those changes are personalized, worthwhile and permanent.
My H (whom is lovingly referred to on the BB as Mr. Wonderful) has been gone for 15 months now. I know firsthand how hard it is not to be able to fix things. Part of a successful outcome requires both of you to decide that it's worth fighting for. This is why she needs time and space.
This time is going to be a test of wills. Your patience will be sorely tried and she is going to be testing you every step of the way to see if you really mean to walk the talk. Don't be tempted to take the short cut, or you're going to set yourself back significantly.
I actually forced Mr. W. into MC last summer (it was an ultimatum that partly worked and partly backfired). He was going to the sessions but not really sounding off FOR THE MARRIAGE. I heard pretty much the same thing as you're hearing now.
We're finally heading back into MC very soon and it's because he's decided he doesn't want the D and needs some help working on reentering earth from the atmosphere (you realize that Houston has to help guide the landing module back to earth).
Focus on you and what you need and want to change about yourself. If things are going to work, you're going to have to pay very close attention to what she says/doesn't say and does/doesn't do.
Capisce?
It's tough, guy. I won't lie to you--this is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. But the hardest things are typically the ones that are the most worthwhile.
Hang in there. You've got friends here to help.
Betsey
Last edited by Underdog; 03/23/0408:54 PM.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
It really can and does work, many people here can attest to the progress they've made following Michele's instructions. You have to remember to be patient though, this isn't going to go away overnight. It could take weeks, months. A number of people on this board have been working on their marriages for quite some time. I've been applying DB principles for 3-4 months now. I've come a long way, but I still have a way to go.
Quote: So you said you know you need to make changes and wonder where to start.... Well, what are her chief complaints about you?
Learn to listen to her w/o having to respond with your opinion or evaluation. Just listen, and then acknowledge that you hear how she feels. Be understanding. Validate her feelings. Learn what you've done that has pushed her way, and start changing now. Don't get caught up talking to her about the changes, just make them and make them stick.
Quote: Read the BB thoroughly, you will find some situations that are similar to yours but are farther along.
This is very good advice too. In addition, there are some especially good readings posted by the moderators in the Newcomers section, be sure to read through them.
Lastly, here's a summary of DB basics I found on another thread...
1. make changes within yourself and be consistent 2. Takes one to tango 3. Take care of yourself, be happy 4. No ILY 5. No R/M Talk 6. Do What is Working 7. Stop what is not working 8. No pressure, Give Space 9. 180's 10. Remember to ACT AS IF things are going well, and getting better.
Welcome to the WAS school of contradiction. This is the most difficult thing you've ever done, I promise. I am smack in the middle and like you, I want something to happen NOW. Know this, it will not. It took a long time to get to this point and it will take time to resolve, one way or the other. And you cannot "fix" it.
LISTEN and do not fight the tremendous, well-meaning advice of the lifesavers here. They know of which they speak. You are WAY ahead of the game. Your W is telling you what she wants and while not fully committing, is going to MC. See that as a positive. And, I'm guessing she is still at home. Back off, now. And listen. She will tell you in her own way, what she needs.
My W moved out 3 weeks ago and this has been very difficult for me. I'm slowly learning about me and the effect I had on the dynamic. And I know I have to change for me. ONE of the benefits of DBing is you may revive your M, but you may not. But I promise, pushing her, pursuing her, saying ILY, saying you will change, please don't do this, WILL drive her straight out of the M. I speak from harsh experience. Do as everyone says, listen, validate, acknowledge and back up. Pursue something for you. Walk, run, work in the yard.
And this is the difficult part, be patient. Time is the ally and the enemy.
Please read "Piece and Quiet" and "Broken Pieces II" if you are interested in my situation and read many of the posts here. Hang in. Write me if you want to talk.
Yes, my W is still at home. A month ago when I asked her what she thought about counseling and if she thought it would work, she said that's why she is still at home so I have some hope. W has told me that she wants out but also is looking to see if MC can help me. Again, mixed signals but as long as at home and in counseling, there's hope. Backing off is difficult. The natural response is to discuss the problems and fix it. She never had the inclination to discuss before acting. There was little warning. Ironically, she has told me once (and several mutual friends) that we should D and remarry in two years???
Welcome to the BB. Now, you are about to embark on one of the most difficult journeys of your life. Strap on your seat belt as the ride can get rather bumpy.
First piece of advice, remember that you should believe little of what your W does and watch her actions. Same goes for you. She doesn't want words from you right now, she wants action. And action that lasts.
It will likely be in little ways that she has complained (or not) about for years. But you have to watch for cues and respond accordingly.
The fact that she is at home puts you one step ahead of many of us. Now it is up to you and your behavior as to whether she stays there. It is yours to lose.
I would also suggest doing a brief recap of your sitch so that we know where you are coming from. How long married? Ages? Kids? etc.
This is hard. All of us here are living a variation of this - and some have it harder than others. But this BB is the great equalizer. You can come hear to vent, to think out loud about an action you want to take (before taking it in case we talk you out of it) and for support.
Make the most of the time you spend on here. Read other threads and learn from them. You will be able to find a few that are close to your own sitch and learn from them. You will find some that aren't close to yours and still learn from them.
So to recap -
1. This is hard. 2. Listen. 3. Actions speak louder than words (for both of you) 4. PATIENCE is essential. 5. Take care of you. 6. Read, read, read. 7. Act "AS IF" it will all work out. 8. Before acting or talking ask yourself "Will this get me closer to my goal?" 9. Remember you can only control you and how you react or behave - not her. 10.Oh and did I mention - PATIENCE! PATIENCE! PATIENCE!
totite
"Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative..."
A quick recap, Married for 10 years, no children, we're in our early 40's, both Catholic, living in same house.
I have been very upbeat through out this ordeal, always thinking positive and that this will work out positively. I heard her say once that my changes are starting to be noticed but that she still might want to leave. After last week’s counseling session and reading DB and most of DR, I have started to limit/eliminate any ILY comments, not chase her around the house, limit e-mails/phonecons while both are at work to only those that are necessary, etc. I have not discussed reconciliation or our relationship. Ironically, we both eat dinner together and some days, you would never suspect that she filed for D. We actually schedule dinners together during week and on weekends.
Problems started with her being generally “unhappy” or at least noticeable last year. We had a disastrous vacation last year. The Christmas holidays were very somber and I could tell she was depressed. She even said she just wanted to be happy but never identified what the problem(s) was. I have started to identify some of my areas of concern although not verified them much with her. At this point, she will have to see action against them. Time is an ally and a threat. She said she wants to see actions. Everybody tells me patience but it’s killing me.
