This was my last question in the old thread. I've gotten some feedback already - at the moment my plan is to just ignore his question. What good could it possibly do?
Originally Posted By: Ancaire
More news...so he came to my room to ask if I was irritated with him. I said yes, and explained that he was going against our agreement set up by our L's by moving things around without asking me. He explained his thoughts, and I said I understood, he'd just done it without even checking, and he's put himself into a place it was going to be harder to avoid interacting with him and could he please stay away from my side of the house.
He asked why that was a problem, and I said, "Look. We're not going to be friends." He wanted to know why, and I answered that friends don't treat one another they way he's treated me.
He slammed out of here, and sent me a text saying: "How I treated you, really? The last talk we had you did all the bashing and and name calling, not me. I just sat there and took it." I responded, "I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done that." Now he wants to know, "So, how have I been treating you badly?"
Really? He wants me to spell it out? I haven't answered. I'm planning to just ignore him. What do you guys think? Should I have to spell it out?
Hi ancaire, I really don't know how to advise on this one for you or for me either and I will tell you why...
For myself, My instincts say no contact. Don't let him think he can abandon our family and keep me as a friend. Why go along with pretenses, delusions, denial ?etc. Reminds me too much of his mother (who I guess saved her marriage). I can see This is how you feel as well. This seems to be general consensus on boards and advised frequently.
But divorce busting coach tells me "act as if" and "be friends first" "friendship is the goal because he will be more committed" "make a climate that is relaxed and friendly. From a friendship, a lot of good things can come"
So I don't know what to think anymore. I am trying to go friendship route, but hard because i am angry. I understand that you are too.
DB coach also says for me to always think "what is purpose of what I want to do or say. Will it take me closer or further from my goal". I have not been saying anything about what I think of my husband to my husband. I post it all on these boards. I know even though I feel I am right, he will not feel that way so it is a waste of energy. I learned to not ask or talk about us anymore. I think you keep falling into the same pattern of getting angry and trying to get him to understand you, but he won't. It's just a waste and it will not get you the apology you desire. Put it in your mind that you will not get an apology for a year so why try to convince. I know This is much harder for you then me because you live with him.
Anyway, things are much too VOLATILE right now for you to discuss any relationship stuff, or how he is wrong, or the bigger picture because it has not helped and will not help. But it won't hurt to act "as if" without any pursuing. Not because you want him back, but maybe for the kids and because you are obviously the bigger person.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
That's good advice, Julie. "Act as if" what? Act as if we're friends?
I've told him before that if we divorce he can count on never seeing me again, and I meant it.
I do feel very much the same as you do. My feelings are all over the place. I hate him. I love him. I miss him. I can't stand to be around him. I want him to apologize. He's not there yet.
I'm just so confused. What do I want? I want him to wake up. I want him to care enough about our children not to rip our family apart.
I don't understand why he's so upset about the thought of us not being friends. I thought that was the whole point of divorce?
It's probably just a way to deflect from feeling guilty. My H wants to be friends too, but I am doing a much better job at that than he is. He can't seem to let go of the resentment he has for me. Maybe there's some guilt to.
If your H, after everything he's put you through, doesn't know what you mean by "how you've treated me", I really don't think a text message will be enough to explain it.
I know how you feel, but as an outsider looking in, now is not the time to debate, try to reason, or rationalize. Nothing you say, no matter how brilliant it is, will wake him up. You might interpret a look or his behaving differently like it did, but I don't think they are capable of it on any level that means anything. He will only see it as a resistive force. Instead, be a friend by giving him space. Allow him to initiate even when it's so superficial you can't stand it, and just Simply stop trying to convince him of anything.
It's also a waste of time to analyze husband and whether he is upset or not. It's all irrelevant. You have to give him time. By fighting with him or analyzing him you are not giving him time to miss you. You were married 21 years, eventually he will but you have to let him.
I know you know this but you keep doing it anyway. (I did too )
Act as if everything is fine. That you are going to be fine. That things are the way you want them to be. That none of this happened. ( I know sounds like denial) but that was my advise from coach. Basically be friends, don't pursue or talk about relationship. Let him initiate friendship. Start by not fighting with him. Show yourself in a good light. Be pleasant. Positive behavior is contagious right? Combat his darkness with your lightness. Act as if. Ascend from your errors, which came from his downward spiral. You are funny and empathetic and insightful and you need to stop letting him drag you down to his level. Maybe by doing this you will bring him back up to yours.
clmtinue to act in your best interest though.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Judy, I was thinking you might like a book I recently read called Radical Recovery. It's about midlife divorce recovery. The author is Suzy Brown.
Me53 H48 M 13 No children together BDMay '15 PA June '15 H moves out,files 8/15 wants "quick divorce" but does nothing Me sending proposal 12/15, court dates upcoming
My DB coach had me write an apology letter to WAW. I did. It stated that the post BD days had been eye opening, and that I had come to realize [harmful behavior]. I told her she was a wonderful person and deserved to bloom again. I told her I wasn't writing this to change her mind as I know it was made up, but that I regretted the pain I had caused and wanted her to know that.
I read the letter to DB coach and she told me: "Good. Now make sure everything you do and say matches the tone of that letter." That became my mission statement.
Granted I didn't always feel that way. I went through my anger, my disgust, my disagreements with her attitude and behavior and choices. But I didn't show ANY of that to her.
Before any text or email I would reread the 37 rules, reread my letter, meditate, and pray. Or some combination of the four. My goal...to get myself into a spot where I was operating from my best self, so my voice would be consistent with the letter, my mission statement. I strove for validation and a place of peaceful strength. To this day I do that. Maybe you saw my exchange with XW just a few days ago. I still do this with my communications. And, if you do this every time, it helps you get there more easily and more permanently. Oh, on face to face interactions be prepared to STFU and just be soft spoken and a little distant. That's ok.
When I read your interactions I don't see that type of consistency.
One moment you're apologizing. One moment you're saying you won't be friends if your D because he treated you badly. One moment you're sharing your feelings (that you're irritated).
At this point use less words, and more actions. You've apologized. Don't apologize anymore. Just act in a way that you don't feel the need to apologize about going forward. No need to rehash your post-D relationship. The friends comment can be effective as a truth dart if they're in fantasy land, but it can also come across as controlling, punishing, and critical. Just set the right boundaries and let that speak for itself. And no need to respond to his question about you being irritated. This makes no sense to me. Your neediness to be heard and understood and validated by him is not helping you. Talk to yourself in the shower, post on here, but if you share your point of view or feelings with him it will result only in pain and destruction.
Getting into a conversation about him treating you badly is just madness. At this point you have to abort it. Either don't reply (which is fine, he'll roll his eyes one time but it's better than starting an argument), or say something like "There's a reason we're in this spot. I know I have struggled to see your point of view and hear your voice. If you have anything you want to share, I will listen. Otherwise I just want to focus on doing better as a co-parent than I did as a spouse. Have a good night."
See, this text would be using STFU, remaining consistent with owning your half, not doing anything that doesn't work like spewing criticism, being friendly with firm boundaries, and expressing some goodwill towards an important goal. It may not be perfect, but it aligns with the mission.
I am proud to say I've used this mission statement for 18 months almost without fail. Maybe I've let some other non-verbal communication leak out occasionally, maybe I've said something that got back to her. I did make the comment at the social services place about how I didn't believe in divorce, and sure enough she found that hurtful (and judgmental and critical). But beyond that I have been very careful not to share any of my own views, emotions, feelings, opinions, or anything with her. It doesn't matter and won't help me co-parent or establish goodwill. If the day came she wanted to talk about reconciliation I could, if I was open to it, find a counselor to guide us through the process, and at some point my feelings could be put on the table. But those feelings would be different by then, if indeed that is even possible. Right now my feelings have a place, but it is NOT in conversation with XW.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Thanks so much for all the input (and the book recommendation.) When I asked my question earlier, I'd just put my phone away and have been busy with the boys tonight. H was definitely spoiling for a fight.
15 minutes after his last message, he'd sent another. "Was I treating you badly, or is this just something you made up?"
Now, we were getting along fairly well. He was just puzzled that I was irritated with him, and I couldn't imagine he cared, which is why I informed him we weren't going to be friends, after the way he'd treated me. I was referring to past-tense, not the way he was at that moment.
Is he really that dense? I said "Friends don't treat one another the way you've treated me." Does that sound current tense to anyone?
If I were giving advice to one of you, I know what I would say. Don't respond. He's having a temper tantrum because you made a reference to his bad behavior and spelled out for him that his fantasy wasn't going to play out the way he wanted. He's picking a fight with you, so that he can make you cower and back down.
I know that is sound advice. My plan is to not respond. I will be cordial on Monday, no more - no less. If he pursues the subject I will tell him I wasn't referring to what he was doing that moment - I was referring to the accumulative damage over the past few years. That should get the message across nicely. I'll also add that while we are forced to interact, I intend to be cordial.
I've been way too happy for crumbs, too. Not anymore. I need to interact with him less, not more. He's done a number on me, and I have so much healing to do.
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