Here I am still

[kyrie]

But I do appreciate that you realize me being here is a sign of respect for your being here.
-I need a lot of clarity and you do provide that for me.

My DB Coach told me once: "Now is not the time for you to voice your feelings, needs, views, etc. That will be possible when spouse is committed to working on the marriage. But right now isn't the time. Make no mistake, suppressing your voice isn't creating a model of how a new marriage might work. It is simply allowing the opportunity to give the new marriage a chance."
-Knowing my H, I'm not completely convinced here but I know what you're trying to say.

Your talk of her narrative/your narrative reminds me of some convos I've had... some things are objective - that's usually what we get tangled in. But still, I know that in the end, it's toxic, *even if we can prove we're right*. I get it. The "narrative" language sounds ... well, you know.

It's ok that you're not there. There's a lot of pain and adversity to sort through. Just know this is the right direction. I posted something on Julie's "Battle of the Sexes" thread, third post on the first page. It talks about perspective, faith, etc. Check it out.
-will do, later. We've got a family 'date' to see the new Star Wars movie tonight. It's something, at least. And he wore his wedding ring all day too (usually it comes off the minute he comes home)

Again, I have confessed my part in this - that I did all those things you've said and more. I seek every day to recognize it (though sometimes it is so hard!) and repent of it. I don't see it as *everything* is his fault.

Good. Keep doing it. This is a daily ritual.
-It had been a near-daily ritual for many weeks. I finally had enough of his spew and got caught up in the cycle again, off and on. I know it set things back. It just seemed like listening & validating and saying what I said was pointless, and just repeating.

I do think it explains a lot of things but, I think as you said before, I can separate him from his sins (that was really helpful in clarifying things).

Don't keep score. I assure you that if you asked him the sins you've committed are greater and the explanation for a lot of things is with you.
-not keeping score - not sure why you said that part. As far as what is "greater", on some level, we would actually agree that adultery is 'greater', which is why Jesus addressed it the ways that he did. Yes, every sin damns us, but some have greater *consequences*. But, that being said, I don't want to sound like that's an excuse for mine, or diminish my guilt or issues.

I want him to be the person he *is* AND the man God intends him to be - whatever that IS.

If you can pray for him from a place of love then that's ok. It's a very slippery slope, however, for those prayers to start including judgment. I'd like you to pray for him, but if it was a choice between praying from a attached and judgmental place versus not praying at all and leaving this between him and his creator I'd prefer the latter.

Yes, he has been "abusive" for our entire marriage - but I've tried to let go of any resentment about that since realizing and repenting of many things.

FWIW, based on some of your words, I have been trying to approach him physically - it's a least something I won't completely screw up...
I have no idea what it means to him...in some ways it feels like I'm just being used, but I know I have to see past all that and hope for the best. What do you think? (asking because I appreciate & respect what you say)

And finally the crux of it. I still think there is one critically important question to answer: Can you remain married to a man that intends to continue to use porn. See, really there are four answers:

1) Yes. It won't be easy, but yes.
2) No. Porn is an affair, if he won't end it I am out.
3) I am not sure. I need some time to soul search.
4) No. So I will remain married and try my best to change his behavior.

Personally I am of the camp of #1. I am not a porn supporter, but I don't believe in ending a marriage unless there is a physical threat or continued adultery (which I define as sex with another person). I think there are many addictions out there. Drugs, alcohol, gambling, smoking, workoholism, overeating, video games, facebook, etc. Many people find themselves medicating at one time or another. Some pull out of it. Some don't. But if all of these were reasons to divorce the divorce rate would be unbelievable. Oh, wait, it is. I think it's wrong to divorce for these reasons. If you can get behind this, then work on accepting it, letting it go, not taking it personally, and being the wife he deserves. Maybe someday he addresses this issue. Maybe not. That can't be the goal. The goal must be to appreciate the opportunity to support and love a great man (just because he uses porn doesn't mean he's not!) and to appreciate the love he does show you. Many, if not all, great marriages involve BOTH parties making this type of sacrifice. I say this because as I've said, there are things he'd feel he is accepting as well!
-well, porn is not the only issue, obviously. I guess I'm at 3, but living at 1, if that makes sense. I know it is my *vow* to support & love him, good or not. I'm not always sure what's the best way to do that, and at what point am I just co-dependent crutch which is NOT loving. Maybe there are more than 4 options. And not taking it personally, well then you might as well said I shouldn't take a lot of things personally that in *fact* are. The secrets and resentment would continue *anyway*.
Take some time... sheesh, been working some of that stuff for far toooo long. He's been turning to it even when things are (at least somewhat) better....[/quote]

So let me ask you a question. If your best friend's husband had a gambling addiction that was creating financial stress and causing her a lot of emotional pain...would you advise her to stay by her man, or that she deserves better?

Of course I'd talk to her about staying and doing what she can. But I'd also recognize that maybe he has to hit rock bottom before *wanting* to get out of the addiction's control. Not that it's her place to force that, but also being a co-dependent isn't helping things either. Again, I can see both sides on that. But, in the big picture, her vow is to love, honor (and traditionally) even obey. I get that.
And I know you're being a good friend to both him and me by staying true to what love and marriage should be. Thank you for that.