Battles of the sexes?

[Zues126]

To all- I am hoping that we can have a discussion and an exchange of ideas without hurting each other. I apologize for the comments I made that minimized the pain women go through in a sexless marriage. One of the reasons I brought up the comparison was because I wanted to better understand things from your side, being alien to me. I have since learned there are things men don't have to deal with. Feelings of shame. Feelings of undesirability. And if someone has insecurity all of their life about their body image, a lack of interest from their male partner could easily compound this pain on the top of their deepest emotional wounds. I don't pretend to understand how you feel or how much it hurt, but I can understand what you are telling me. I think the comparison game was a regrettable choice of mine, I was going for expressing priority to women that didn't understand their men, I wasn't really going for a comparison about the depths of our pain and that was simply an idle thought that was insensitive and unproductive.

To BT- I may be like your husband in some ways, and you may be like my XW in some ways. But there are some big differences.

I never cheated on XW.
XW never spent month after month, journaling, trying to understand my pain, and trying to carry a failing marriage by rising to the occasion (or maybe she did...until she gave up, cheated, filed D, and never looked back).

I am not judging you for your mistakes in your marriage. I am applauding you for trying to do better.

I liken it to if you wrote a heartfelt love letter to your husband, and by mistake it went to the wrong address and he never got to read it. Was it your fault? I suppose. But it's a mistake, an accident. I recognize the thought that went into that letter, and while it doesn't make up for the fact that he didn't get to read it and while I am hard on 'good intentions', the reason I am hard on excuses/intentions is only when people use them to avoid taking responsibility and changing. What's important is that you felt remorseful that he didn't receive the bulk of your love, you took ownership, and you are correcting the address so he gets the next one.

Honestly it makes me a bit jealous of your next partner.

Julie- Funny, we both have thought the other gender had it easier. I think it's definitely hard for both genders. My opinion is that you can't replace a marriage. You can never replace someone that you can co-parent your children with and share that joy, the greatest joy in the world. It's gone. Kaput. It's taking the greatest gift from God and throwing it away forever. And you can never take away the pain in your heart. And you can never rebuild the same connections that took 10, 20, or more years to make, because you built them by being together while you grew. It's like if you have an hour to build a sandcastle, and 45 minutes in a wave washed it away...you don't have much time to build the second.

This is hard, but I'd rather talk to the reality and spread the word to those that can still stand by their marriages (on and off the board) then cling to the illusion that marriages can be replaced because we want to stay in denial. They can't. That's why we are here. And I am tired of hearing people think their next relationship will be 'just like my last only better'. That's the same thinking that our spouses subscribe to.

However, in 45 minutes of sandcastle building we did get better at it. Our next relationship will never replace our last, and it will never be what it could've been if we'd had those skills 10-20 years ago, or even what we could've made it had we had the chance to use those skills IN ADDITION TO the history we shared. But at least we've learned, and have taken those away.

Anyway, that's just why I think it's hard for both. So for me, first of all I don't meet many women. I forget who asked me if I have women friends in real life, but the answer is no. Unless you count my mom. Nope. I've had 2 serious relationships with women, one 5 years, one 10 years, both cheated and left me. Not saying it's right, but I feel that there is only room for one woman in my life. Point is, I'm not exactly giving myself a lot of opportunities, I can't blame my gender, but just goes to show that it varies by individual.

Beyond that, who am I going to meet? A younger woman that wants to start a family? Yikes. I have a family. Do I want to start another and just use a mulligan? What will that tell my kids, that I want a redo and I need to focus on my new 'get it right this time' family? And beyond that, a younger woman without children is not going to have the relationship skills you all are learning. She is going to put me through the same crap I went through, and even if I'm a better H this time around she'll probably be a terrible partner as we all were, and then right before my eternal loyalty is rewarded in any way, she'll probably leave me for some fantasy man that makes her feel alive again, because she doesn't know better. Then, what, I'll have to start again in another 15 years, and right when my child support runs out with XW I'll replace it for another 15 years, and move out of another house? Then what, find another young woman? So I can just keep being used and abandoned until I run out of house buying days and get cremated because they've sucked everything out of me and there's nothing left to bury?

OK, I got carried away Point is, I think we ALL have to contend with that. It's really tough for all of us. The divorce rate for second marriages is frightening, women are faced with men wanting teenagers without kids, men are faced with women initiating divorces like Subway puts out meatball subs.

Bottom line, I am secretly holding out for the DB dating forum for post D members. I think you ought to be able to go back, read someone's old threads, have them read yours, and then see how many mutual flags there are. Then again, I'd be competing against a lot of pretty stand up guys, maybe I'm better off with eharmony...

Vise- Good points. Just remember one thing. There is a big difference between living without sex because you're single, and because your spouse is avoiding it. Sex is not a physical need. I can take care of that. Is the difference in physical pleasure between a woman and a Baker's Square Apple Cream-cheese pie warmed to 99 degrees and double saran-wrapped that significant? I think it's the emotional connection that makes the difference. When we are in a relationship we want to share love. We want to give it and receive it. We do both through sex. We may have to learn other ways to give depending on W's love language...oh, just thought of something...but the point is that when you're in a relationship your need for sex is totally different than when single.

To All (again)- I just thought of another reason sex is so important. Not just to meet our needs to receive love...but to give it. Even if XW TELLS me she doesn't feel loved through sex, since it's how I feel love and my reptilian brain still thinks it's an expression of love, let me love you that way too! It's like my kids drawing me pictures all the time. I don't need more Rorschach ink blots, but it's how they express love, and by accepting them THEY feel connected and happy because they got to love me. That's pretty special.

You guys are the best. I still can't believe people read my crap. I'm just some weirdo in a hotel room on an out of town business trip, but instead of feeling lonely I have the best time posting to you all. Thanks for being my pal.