Never posted before. Long story short (without our history), I'm trying to save my marriage (obviously I'm here lol). Wife and I separated in May. She stated she no longer wanted to be married on Aug 1st. She filed with attorney on 10/1 with a false separation date. Found out she has been talking to another guy (fake Jesus believer with "thy will be done" on his chest and a bible on his stomach; guess he forgot the 10th commandment??? or shes been lying to him from day 1 or maybe a little of both?) since June this past year. We are working through the divorce without lawyers and over the last 2 weeks, we have had 3 great discussions of emotions and history; mutually. No talks of R's but we agreed to cancel our lawyers and do this by ourselves. Those discussions are done. She has said this guy is just "a friend" and she is doing nothing wrong. Completely false in my eyes but I have no proof and I'm not spying on her to even have proof.
Question: I do not initiate text or phone calls unless it is about our 3 kids. Since I know she is still "friends" with him, when she comes over to get the kids and she ends up staying at the house for over an hour, do I allow her to continue to slowly open up to me (as we say pave the way home smoothly; doing this would allow her to see that I'm not controlling her and I have self control because she knows I know they talk) and just never mention the friend thing, or do I say, we have nothing to talk about if you are still having friendships with other men (as this may come across as controlling her to her)?
I don't have proof of anything, but the only thing consistent here is her inconsistency. I would love to hear SANDI'S thoughts on this!!!
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Question: I do not initiate text or phone calls unless it is about our 3 kids. Since I know she is still "friends" with him, when she comes over to get the kids and she ends up staying at the house for over an hour, do I allow her to continue to slowly open up to me (as we say pave the way home smoothly; doing this would allow her to see that I'm not controlling her and I have self control because she knows I know they talk) and just never mention the friend thing, or do I say, we have nothing to talk about if you are still having friendships with other men (as this may come across as controlling her to her)?
You're doing really really well for being just 8 months in, N, a natural DBer! Have you been reading the forum since joining? I did that too - quietly read for a long time.
I would allow her to slowly open up to you, rather than cut her off. From what I remember my old DB coach telling me, he said to give my ex space, and not pursue or initiate conversations with him, but, on the other hand, if HE initiated conversation with me, that I should be friendly in a casual sort of way.
I'm not sure if telling your wife that you two have nothing to talk about if she is "having friendships with other men" is the right thing to do. If you are sure she is in a relationship with another man, that's another thing entirely, and I agree that you should not also be in relationship with her, but in my opinion, talking would be okay.
I'd be interested to get a man's opinion on this!
Linda
Me 65, Ex 64 M 38 y 2 adult S, 4 G-Kids MLC 11/07 BD 12/09 D 3/14 Dating nice guy 7/14 Engaged to nice guy 12/17
Question: I do not initiate text or phone calls unless it is about our 3 kids. Since I know she is still "friends" with him, when she comes over to get the kids and she ends up staying at the house for over an hour, do I allow her to continue to slowly open up to me (as we say pave the way home smoothly; doing this would allow her to see that I'm not controlling her and I have self control because she knows I know they talk) and just never mention the friend thing, or do I say, we have nothing to talk about if you are still having friendships with other men (as this may come across as controlling her to her)?
You're doing really really well for being just 8 months in, N, a natural DBer! Have you been reading the forum since joining? I did that too - quietly read for a long time.
I would allow her to slowly open up to you, rather than cut her off. From what I remember my old DB coach telling me, he said to give my ex space, and not pursue or initiate conversations with him, but, on the other hand, if HE initiated conversation with me, that I should be friendly in a casual sort of way.
I'm not sure if telling your wife that you two have nothing to talk about if she is "having friendships with other men" is the right thing to do. If you are sure she is in a relationship with another man, that's another thing entirely, and I agree that you should not also be in relationship with her, but in my opinion, talking would be okay.
I'd be interested to get a man's opinion on this!
8 months in??? I Wish I could say that. I'm going on 18 months. I stated the short story...Here is the real long story in which I'm not proud of but I can say that this has been the most beautiful disaster that has ever occurred in my life. The changes I've gone through and the humbleness I've experienced thought out this entire situation has been incredible and much needed. God did what he had to do to make it "stick" with me.
I had a huge problem with infidelity over the history of our relationship. Then came everything else...kids, college full time for both of us, work, stress, bills, dirty dishes, laundry, etc. I took my WW for granted and felt entitled to do whatever I pleased because she wasn't going anywhere (as I had gotten away with it in the past) and I made all the money for our relationship. I now know that led to a lot of resentment for me (from my childhood; paying rent at 14 and basically being on my own) as I've come to learn a lot about myself through counseling and HONEST self-reflection. In 2014, we were really disconnected. Like seriously disconnected. Both had a lot on our plates and didn't feel loved or appreciated by the other (I understand now that we were both loving one another, just not in ways we could receive it; thank you Gary Chapman).
I cheated multiple times before marriage. I've tried but just couldn't do it while married, although I will not dismiss what I have done as "not cheating". Now, my wife found an email to another woman last July (2014) and bam, that was her last straw. She said she wanted to be alone and then developed the "friendship" with this other guy. An emotional affair in which she has trickled truth me to death over the past year and still don't know the entire truth (in which I'm sure it was physical based on all situations; us LBSs always believe that our wife's could never do that; its not her, etc.) That's when I found this website. Tried doing all the things here but as we know, our emotions are running WILD and control most of us. I honestly think we have to exhaust ourselves of the crying, begging, pleading type actions before we are truly able to let go. We were separated when all this was going on and she denied she was still talking to him, etc. I found out in December that she was still texting him so I told her, I tried the separation her way and she still lied to me and I'm moving back in. If she'd like to continue her relationship with him, by all means, go ahead but you will be moving out of our house. She ended contact with him and December and I moved back in the house.
Things were hectic during the next 5-6 months. I could tell she was still getting over him or at least, how he was able to make her feel about herself (same thing in every situation; he made me feel cared for, he listened to me like he wanted to know what I had to say, etc.) She went to individual counseling in March and went for about 5 sessions; counselor said she was really co-dependant, basically a lot of things for justifying her actions and who she was. I say that because I believe there is a way to do it as self reflection for improving yourself and a way to do it as providing excuses and saying its okay because of your past. We started Marriage counseling in May in which I allowed her to pick the therapist and we had went for 3 sessions. Then in May, her friend (who doesnt like me) was in town for the night. She asked if they could go out and eat crabs. They left the house at 1 and were drinking all day, she had posted pictures on instagram with her wedding rings off. The whole time she was texting me until 9 pm stating how she appreciated me going out with her friend, etc. Her friend is a recent divorcee as well. Needless to say, 12 am comes around and nothing from her...I call and text and no answer. I leave the house at 2 and go to the bar. I find her and the other man naked together, she jumps in his truck, and he comes out from behind a bush and blindside hits me...NAKED. I'm sure we all know what they were about to do...had to admit but I've come to reality with it as I've done it in my past. I stop fighting him and leave; its not me. The next day, I ask her to move out of the house. She does and lets me know that they did not do anything and were not intending on doing anything; they all went skinny dipping in the river (about 12 of them) but when I pulled up, those 2 were about 300 yards away from the rest of the crew.
She seems to be really remorseful through all of this over the next 2-3 weeks but I am still having to pressure her for answers as her story is not adding up. This time, I wasn't the one that messed up so I was certain that she would want to make this work the same way I did when I messed up. Boy was I wrong for that assumption. Me pressuring her put accountability on her and that was a good thing. She was distant, angry, and always flipped things on me. I couldn't figure out how she didn't want to put in the work now after her mess up!!! I was so up and down at this time and my emotions were getting the best of me, especially with triggers. I did talk about divorce and told her i wanted one because I felt she didnt want "us" anymore. I journaled and kept notes on all our interactions from June through August 1st, the day she officially told me she no longer wanted to be my wife.
I was at a standstill then. Didn't know what was going on. Thought the affair was back on with that guy, but after some research, it appeared that she was telling the truth about that in which she said, "He's dead to me." From June to October, I work on being consistent and establishing connection with her. She always ends up flipping on things and basically I can never do anything right. Stating, "we are done, we are not together anymore, I haven't given you any thing to believe that we are going to make it, etc."
On 10-1-15, I receive divorce papers with a false separation date. talk about crushing for anyone who has received those and did not want them. The end of October, my son tells me she's been texting this guy at night. The next day, I ask who he is and her whole demeanor changes. Hes a friend of Ministry. Now I think shes messing with me because I started going to church in July and was Baptized on 10/11/15. She gets upset and I just walk away. Now I haven't been checking up on her or doing any of the things I did the first time around, but I have been praying to God for him to bring to light anything that is being done in darkness because logically, I didn't understand anything going on in my life. God Answered my Prayer.
I go to Hooters with a friend. As I’m about to leave I look around and guess who is sitting there???? The guy she is talking to; right behind the booth that I’m in. I go to the bathroom to confirm his face because I’ve never seen him before. I come out and it’s him. What are the chances of this happening? He lives in different county and he’s here eating at Hooters at 9:30 on a Monday night. Now I start listening in on his conversation. He is talking to two girls with 3 kids. One named XXX whose husband had died and the other named (my wife), who has 3 kids and the kids’ father wants to be in their lives. XXX, he has known for a year and just now started talking to her “like that” (as he said) over the last month and (my wife), he’s been talking to her for 5 months. As he shows his friend pics of both women, the other guy he is with is saying that (my wife) is hotter but you have to worry about her being loyal to him, etc. The guy was like yeah, and I don’t know if I want to deal with baby daddy drama. He stated he was ready to step in and be a father at this time in his life. The other guy was telling dickhead that he should go with the widower. I was shaking. I paid my bill and left.
5 MONTHS?!?!?! This is a different guy from last year. That would explain the disconnection and lack of wanting to work on our marriage. She picked up on this new found love of "drawing" and guess what? This guy is a tattoo artist, lol. How ironic. Even found out she went to his house on Thanksgiving!!!
So my current situation is this: She is still talking to him but claims he is just a friend. I'm done killing myself with the research and I will never put myself through that again. We have been more amicable than ever over the last 2 months. We have both fired our attorneys and agreed to go through with this civilly and morally. Like I said in the original posts, she has talked with me 3 times over the last 2 weeks on very intimate levels; levels I don't think we have ever communicated on our entire relationship (I'm 31, shes 33; T: 12, M: 8). I've pulled back over the last 3 weeks and she takes it as me ignoring her. In the first talk, she talked about how she feels God is punishing her for her choices in life. In the second talk, she talked about how she has days where she's not sure she's making the right decision, etc. She talked about her dreams for the first time ever. But had no answers to my question of "HOw does having a supporting husband not help you achieve those dreams? Wont it be harder to do it alone?" I'd like to actually believe everything she told me about why she wants to take this path, but the fact is this guy didn't know me and he sat right behind me talking about my wife as if he has an option to be with her.
Shes been inconsistent and maybe doesn't catch herself opening up to me. Like today, she came to get the kids and I'm playing Bingo with my daughter and my son comes and sits next to me. We end that game and then she states, "I want to play Bingo too." So she sits there and we play Bingo as a family for the first time in probably 18 months, maybe longer. (just for Situational Awareness, I'm living in the marital home and she has been living with her mother for the past 7 months; she just got a small condo this past week).
Guess that's where I'm torn. Is she cake eating? I'm not giving her the attention, these conversations happened when she came to pick up the kids and she chose to stay longer. I'm sure she's still talking with him as she ALWAYS leaves her phone in the car when she comes in and we aren't on the same phone bill. But then again, its been about 7 months...maybe the fascination is wearing off in her "friendship"? I don't know what to think. I know my goal is to save my marriage and my family and make it to the "blissfulness" that I read about once you get past tragic events like these with a whole new found level of respect and appreciation for one another. I really have ABSOLUTELY no room for errors now; although I have reached a point where I know I will be alright either way which has helped me a ton over the last month. She has acknowledged change in me and maybe she is seeing it, I don't know. Would love some advice from the senior people on this site in regards with all the success stories and similarities found in my story.
This past 18 months has been hell for me and my family. I have put in serious work to be a better man, husband, and father and to understand why I've committed actions that I'm morally against. It has been nothing short of HUMBLING. As bad as it has been, I am grateful that God has put me here. The things I've learned about relationships and what a healthy marriage should be are immeasurable.
AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT SANDI IS THE MOST ACCURATE POSTER ON THIS BOARD WHEN DEALING WITH WWs. Everything she has written has been spot on and helping me understand my wife while deep in the affair fogs. SANDI, you cannot be thanked enough.
Wife is a conflict avoider. She shuts down when things get tense.
She's also stated that this marriage has to end and be put to rest. That tells me that she is having a hard time forgiving herself for the things shes done.
Throw in the fact that my kids, son age 10 and daughter age 5, want to be with me on her days...could she be "awakening" or am I being naïve?
I know one this for certain...this time, I'm done pursuing for good. They say you'll know if and when she ever wants to be back in the marriage. Its not like anything you've seen before and right now, there is nothing that stands out that I haven't seen before, except a little bit of self reflection done during those first 2 conversations over the past 2 weeks.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thanks Cadet. Bought the book 16 months ago...read it in 2 days...thought I was over this with the getting back together for 6 months, but it was clear that I took her back too fast as most do because of our desire to have them anyway we could get them. Now I find myself back here again...
Would love to hear Sandi's take on my situation if anyone could ping her, lol.
Need to know if these are signs that she feels she is losing things...i.e. kids not wanting to go with her, self reflection on her part, her feelings of stress, anxiety, depression that are adding up on her.
I'm still in the No initiating contact mode so I believe that will be the path I continue on as it gets easier each day.
Just [censored] that it took all of this to really learn to appreciate what you have and understand that the blessings you are wishing for were right in front of you the whole time.
I really really really dislike the situation I'm in. Do I deserve it? Yes and no. No one deserves this type of pain but maybe I had to feel it to understand her pain.
Either way, I'm at that place of peace where I know I'm made serious growth for myself and I am the better choice and I will be an incredible husband in the future, whether or not its with her, I do not know. I'd hate for her not to reap the benefits of this positive change, but that's not for me to decide.
I know you are busy; just respect you so much from everything you have posted and I know not every WW is the same but you give it to us straight and have experience in these situations that cannot go unnoticed.
So, when do you know when your WW is really coming around without her coming out and saying it directly? What were the first signs for you contemplating that you wanted to stay in the marriage or make you think this could work (knowing that your husband wouldn't hold it against you forever and that you had to face your truth and snap out of fantasy land)?
In those talks I keep referencing, she has acknowledged her faults and even slipped up on reading about guys with mother issues (me) and how it affects them later on in life. She's just been inconsistent...moments of vulnerabilities over the past month where she has asked to do things with us and then either backed out or just never brought it up again (as I didn't either because I don't want to pressure her).
Where is the line between keeping the road home paved smooth and being nice and amicable while I'm certain she is still talking to that guy who is just a "friend" (her story)? What would you recommend doing? Not allowing her to stay and play games as a family? I have the simple things down like no R talk, no talking about other man, etc. Just a lot harder to do when we have kids and I want the kids to see a respectful relationship between their mother and I; especially when I know I have done more than my fair share of dirt to help push her to this place of insanity. I had issues I needed to address within myself and God chose to hit me where he knew it would hurt and force me to look myself in the mirror.
Maybe none of these signs matter because its about me changing and my focus is on me. Well I'm there and I wont ever stop growing as this experience has been LIFE ALTERING for me. Just hope she comes along for the ride.
Where is the line between keeping the road home paved smooth and being nice and amicable while I'm certain she is still talking to that guy who is just a "friend" (her story)?
Keeping the road home paved and smooth does not mean to NOT have boundaries. It does not mean that you pave the road with gold plated bricks either.
You know the best thing to DO sometimes is NOTHING.
NOTHING can actually be an ACTION and a choice.
VS
Yelling, screaming, arguing, begging, pleading etc.
