Here I am still

[kyrie]

I dunno what is the hardest. I'm so happy for you Trumpet - it is really encouraging and amazing how far you've come and how open you are about it. I know it is not easy.
Last night was another bomb, in a new way. H caught our just-turned 14D on the computer in her room (which had been internet-disabled) online, ALL NIGHT. No wonder she had been falling asleep so much.
Went through some of the history, at 5AM, and found online chat rooms, cosplay "fan fiction" sites where she was writing some rather inappropriate stuff. Of course H and I talked a little bit about it. He was actually good about it - asked me my thoughts. I shared them (stupidly) and it got turned to us. Partially my fault because *of course* I see a connection, similarity and the pathology at work here. And frankly, I've been a teen girl and struggled with nearly the exact same scenarios (which almost seemed to shock him), but he reacted by saying I was being controlling (by sharing my past and my concerns??). I'm sure I did some stuff wrong.
UGH.

[trumpet]

It's ok.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

My D14 loves cosplay as well. Has lots of internet friends. Does she draw? Heck, they might be in the same circles. Friends from all over the US.

My daughter's drawing table and computer are in a common room. NO TV/computers in their room. We do allow ipod touches in their rooms. No phones for them until they are in HS.

How did the coaching session go? Get any advice that has worked?

[kyrie]

She does draw - a lot. We moved (to TX) last year, so just developing new friends has been a challenge. She's been alone a lot & doesn't want to get out & do anything. Her whole life is fantasy driven: Video games, fantasy books, music, drawing - all internal for the most part.
No phones/no TV in their room. The computer was for the solitare game and for homework. Nothing else...but she figured it out. Guess that was a matter of time.
No coaching session yet - it is VERY hard to figure out a time to do it. Might even been a few weeks, so I desperately am trying to navigate until at least then.
I did take the step (maybe foolishly) of apologizing for blowing up so much day-before yesterday.

[kyrie]

I wonder if it was wrong to share my thoughts the way I did.

[tfish08]

we moved to texas in july. It has been hard for my boys to make friends. We are in Central Texas

[kyrie]

Tough for all of us. Still, I'd rather not be back in IL, where the OW is. But also where all our friends are.
Johnson county.

[Zues126]

He was actually good about it - asked me my thoughts. I shared them (stupidly) and it got turned to us. Partially my fault because *of course* I see a connection, similarity and the pathology at work here. And frankly, I've been a teen girl and struggled with nearly the exact same scenarios (which almost seemed to shock him), but he reacted by saying I was being controlling (by sharing my past and my concerns??)

The problem is that you are unable to see past your pain, resentment, and frustration with his behavior, so you continue to think that all the problems in your relationship and family are directly tied to the things about your husband you dislike. And because porn is considered a sin in your religion you then think that means God is on your side, you are right, he is wrong, and everything is his fault, and if he would only turn to God and become the person you want him to be than everything would be all better.

I don't know how to say this any more clearly...this outlook is poison to a relationship and is WORSE than porn.

So if sharing your feelings means continuing to spew this narrative, then no, it's not going to be helpful to your relationship or your co-parenting. And until you let this go, even if your husband quit porn and became husband of the year, your marriage simply won't work, because it takes two people to make a marriage work and it would still be one short.

At what point can you drop the score card and understand that he feels your attitude and behavior is either worse than anything he's done or is merely a coping mechanism he's using to deal with a critical, judgmental, and borderline abusive spouse? He has his own list of imperfections about you that he feels are the cause of the marital breakdown. He has his own narrative.

Sure, you can dismiss this and simply declare yourself 'right' because that's how you feel. I'm sure he has plenty of problems you could point to, and to be fair, I'm sure he too wields his education, and background, and his title, to insist that HE is right and YOU are wrong. So he is wrong to do this too. But I'm not talking to him, I'm talking to you.

You guys are stuck in a bad, bad cycle. You can't count on him to break it. You can either understand that you are both being destructive and ask God for help to transcend your narrow view and limited perspective and lead by example, or you can keep doing the same dance, watch your marriage fail, and then blame your ruined life on him to your friends and family for the next decade or two.

Act with the character you wish he had. If you can't do it, how do you expect him to?

[kyrie]

Dear Zues, I hear you - and I know I need to really hear this. Most of the time I *can* see past it, but there are moments when it feels like he (and you) don't think my feelings matter at all. That none of this matters & it should just be dismissed. I also know that is not what is intended (right?).
Again, I have confessed my part in this - that I did all those things you've said and more. I seek every day to recognize it (though sometimes it is so hard!) and repent of it. I don't see it as *everything* is his fault. I do think it explains a lot of things, but, I think as you said before, I can separate him from his sins (that was really helpful in clarifying things).
I want him to be the person he *is* AND the man God intends him to be - whatever that IS.
You are right - I *have* to stop sharing my feelings. But...but...they don't go away. Will they be ignored forever? It feels like I've been stuffing them for nearly a year, though they do come out. Yes, he has been "abusive" for our entire marriage - but I've tried to let go of any resentment about that since realizing and repenting of many things.

FWIW, based on some of your words, I have been trying to approach him physically - it's a least something I won't completely screw up...
I have no idea what it means to him...in some ways it feels like I'm just being used, but I know I have to see past all that and hope for the best. What do you think? (asking because I appreciate & respect what you say)

[ARose]

Kyrie, I also struggle often with DB because it feels like I don't matter at all. The bottom line is that we matter very much, but we are the ones here trying to save our marriages and until our partners (if ever) are 100% on board with us to work on the marriage then we need to push aside our feelings and focus on how we can change and meet our partners needs. And meet our own needs in the meantime through GAL, a job, friends, etc, meet our own needs outside of the marriage because our spouse just cannot or will not right now. DB is a lesson in pushing our pride and ego aside for what could be a very long time in the hopes that we can save our marriage. It is hard. But please remember that you do matter, and if your H was on here he would be getting the same "tough love" advice from Zues and the others. But he is not here, you are.

Hang in there. It [censored], I know, but think of the bigger picture.

[trumpet]

Kyrie,

You hurt, and he is the person you're supposed to be with, and he's not supposed to hurt you. Right? So you tell him you're hurt, and he erupts, because he's hurt. He's hurting himself, and because he can't stop, he has to let it out.

It's a vicious cycle. A negative feedback loop. It can get so negative, that it turns to violence. My wife 10 years ago got so upset, as did I, that I had to call the cops - she had punched me, and I grabbed her arms so she'd stop punching. I did have to get her along a wall, so could get the arms. She says I slammed her against the wall. Honestly, it's so long ago, and we both apologized, but you KNOW she has brought that up in the last 2 months as yet another reason to divorce.

We both chose to approach each other 10 years ago in such an unhealthy way, and yet I was so stupid to never get help for the relationship. And neither did she.

Cleaning up my side of the fence has made me realize how we were so intertwined in our own personal struggles, but never had time to fix ourselves. We'd push that on our spouse, since they're supposed to be there for support. When our spouses don't help us, we turn to drugs or other vices, or other people, to get what we need.

I'm cleaning up my side of the street. I feel good about it. My kids see a different dad. That's ALL I can clean up - I don't have access to the other side of the street.

Kyrie, think about what you can clean up. That doesn't mean repenting of a sin - we all need to do that. If I'm loved by a higher power (for me, it's GOD), I need to show that love to others. But also, I need to understand that the love He has for me needs to break thru the hard shell around your wounded heart.

Showing love to my wife right now wouldn't really get me anywhere - she's wayward. So, I have to put the outward love on the shelf, and wait. And waiting is HARD, especially when they're in the same house as you.

Is he still having an EA?

If so, detach and see what brush you can clean up on your side. Detaching is an active process - it isn't like riding a bike, and then you 'get it' and don't have to focus on it anymore. Ever played a first-person shooter video game? Many times, they have different views, or 'perspectives' from the person you're portraying. Sometimes, you're looking down the sight of the gun, or you can just see his/her body. Other times, you're able to be about 3 feet behind the person, which allows you to see all around yourself, as well as where you're shooting. Imagine having that perspective when you're talking with your husband.