Warning: Uncensored JGuy responding. Warning: Uncensored blue Azzork responding
Wow, Azzork and Zeus... you guys sure are tough on me and it hurts. I feel like I'm getting somewhere but whether you realize it or not, your words are having the effect of pushing me down, telling me that it's not enough, undermining any small amount of confidence that I have started to build. It is certainly not my intent to bring you down or to destroy your confidence. But, by the same token, I dont accept moral victories as a thing. If my football team loses 58-0 or 30-17 or 28-27, its still a loss. It counts the same on the scoreboard; it counts the same in the standings. So when I see see you take 3 steps away from your goal instead of 10 steps away, I dont count that as a positive.
It is very discouraging. You are losing me here and I really don't feel supported when you take this hard approach on me. It feels like you don't understand me and it reinforces my impression that this world is a cold, prickly place where I am not emotionally safe. I dont understand you? I have BEEN you. I have spent countless nights around BD up all night, crying next to my XW, talking at 3 AM, leaving for the couch hoping she'd follow me to comfort me, and so on. Im hard on you, because I WANT YOU TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE. Im hard on you, because I would have killed to be in the spot you are with the advice youre getting back around my BD. I did everything wrong. Every single thing. And Im hard on you because I see you doing the same things, and I know where it's going to take you.
I think you have a good chance at busting your divorce, and it hurts me to see you throwing it away because of the way you are feeling today. I believe you will live to regret it, and I dont want that for you.
You are suggesting that I do and say things which would require acting and being untrue to myself. At times I did experiment with this approach, but it felt very wrong to put on a distant, composed front toward my W as though I was strong and had it all together. I don't. So because it felt wrong, then you arent going to do it anymore? The person that you were was cheated on multiple times and completely disrespected by your wife. By refusing to change, you are ensuring that the dynamic between the two of you will not change. Why do you expect HER to be the one to change?
YOU need to be the one to change. And change is hard. And awkward. And it feels wrong. But that doesnt mean it IS wrong.
Why do you WANT to be the old JGuy?
This whole experience has made me more raw and vulnerable than I have felt in as long as I can remember. I am not a baby, but there is a baby in me that is seriously hurting from birth trauma which I never healed from and which my W's betrayal has re-triggered big time. It is like being abandoned all over again by the one person whom I trusted the most to be a safe haven in this scary world. I get the impression that you have no idea what I'm going through in this regard. It is like a double whammy. The betrayal of being cheated on plus on top of that, being thrown face first back into the extremely vulnerable feelings of abandonment that were my first moments in this world. You may be right. I dont really understand all of that. But if youre saying that the pain you are feeling is worse than what I felt at BD, then youre just arguing semantics. Yes, you may have a little more to sort out, but we are all in the same boat.
I spent four months thinking that the girl Id loved since I was 13 wasnt going to hurt me. Wasnt going to leave me. Wasnt going to betray me. But of course....she did. You dont need to tell me about raw and vulnerable; Ive lived it too.
I couldn't care less about being attractive right now. All I have is a hope that my attractiveness will come back in time, with healing myself. To heal, I need to care for that part of myself that is the baby who never received the nurturing I needed from my mother at birth. Thats what were here for. Thats what your IC is for. Thats what a trusted friend is for. Thats what a pastor is for.
THAT IS NOT WHAT YOUR WIFE IS FOR ANYMORE.
She is not going to heal you. So saying that "Im coping as best as I can" is not a way to heal. Tell US about how youre coping. Tell her you feel FINE.
That part of me was bonded to my W inappropriately and that was my codependent coping mechanism. I am working on this with the help of IC but it is really, really difficult. Please understand that you have absolutely no idea... My journey is not one of "manning up" but of becoming very sensitive and loving to my own "inner baby" and learning how to nurture that part of myself so that he can finally heal and won't need to seek it from a woman anymore. You are getting confused by the intention of the advice. Nobody is telling you not to feel those emotions. Nobody. What we are saying is that your WIFE is not your EMOTIONAL CARETAKER anymore. So showing them to HER is not going to get you closer to your goals.
Being ashamed of that part of myself and denying it by trying to man up is exactly what got me into this mess. This stupid culture that we live in does not value men who cry, who are sensitive. This culture can go screw itself. I am what I am. I am what I am? So you cant grow? Cant change? Cant evolve? The whole [censored] point of DB is to grow into the person that you want to become. If you dont want to rely on your W for emotional support, why are you expressing to her how hard this is? why are you telling her you are having trouble coping? How does doing that move you TOWARDS your goal of emotional independence?
ACT emotionally independent. Then you will BECOME emotionally independent.
I am celebrating my small steps, with or without you guys. I am snapping out of any illusion I was in before that my W is remotely capable of being an emotionally safe person for me to bond with. Then why did you say "Im coping the best I can"? What is your intention other than to expose yourself emotionally to her? If you want to be emotionally disentangled, then you say "Im doing fine." Like I said before, Im not going to celebrate that you are moving farther from your goal, even if it's slightly slower than before.
So what I can do, and which I have been doing, finally, is containing myself around her and taking back the responsibility of nurturing myself. This is my form of letting go and detaching, and for me, it is good enough. Are you? Is saying "this is really hard for me" and "Im coping as best as I can" being emotionally contained around her? I suppose, it's better than sobbing uncontrollably, but it isnt going to move you forward.
For the record, I was already crying at the time my W walked in and surprised me. I stopped within 10 seconds. I didn't cuddle her... she came close to me, but I just laid there and didn't say anything other than "this is really hard for me". That was a big improvement for me over how I would have responded only a couple of days earlier... previously I would have gone on crying, cuddling her back, and talking endlessly, seeking nurturing from her. So although it may not look that way to you, it was a big improvement for me. I suppose. This feels like saying, "I didnt shoot myself in the face; I only shot myself in the foot." This interaction did not move you toward your goal, it moved you away from it. I will reiterate that I dont think thats something to celebrate.
This is your journey, JGuy. You dont have to listen to a word I (or Zues or anyone) say. I wont pretend to know everything on this subject. I havent even been here a year, so I know that I dont. But know that I DO want you to succeed. Im on your team.
As JellyB (so kindly) wrote, my intent is to help keep you on track. I am not your cheerleader. I am just trying to keep your ship steered forward. Set goals and try to reach them. Why would you want to move away from them?
