Looking forward to the new year

[Zues126]

Ah, painter. Sometimes I feel like we're so far apart you're seeing the zues from 3 weeks ago and the light it just reaching you now Hope you know that despite our different perceptions, I recognize you as a wise, caring, powerful woman with the spirit of God within.

Zues, it sounds like you are also saying what my H would say. 'I can do this but then there will just be other reasons.' 'There shouldn't be conditions.' I think the reason you don't hear from women whose husbands overcame the 'conditions', is that they gave their wives what they needed in the first place, so their wives didn't even notice anything missing.

Correct. There are relationships that don't have this issue. I'm addressing the many that do.

I feel like your comparison to feeding a child has some problems - it likens a grown man to a screaming child... someone who doesn't have the ability to realize that relationships are a two-way street.

Agreed. It's not a perfect analogy. It was designed to communicate the priority level this is. Even that's not perfect, as I said in my last post it's not life and death. But it's probably a lot closer to life and death than it is to 'frustration' or 'disappointment' which I assume is what most women think.

Put it this way. If women understood how it felt for men to be sexually neglected it would NEVER EVER HAPPEN. PERIOD. The ONLY reason this happens is because women don't have any idea what they are doing.

Something I wonder: If you - as a man - go out to a bar, do you expect that some random woman should want to make love to you? Do you get upset if that doesn't happen? Or do you realize that you probably need to be nice to her, charm her, buy her dinner and a glass of wine (yes, maybe she wants to pay for it herself, but at least you offer), and maybe invest weeks and months, depending on her standards. Basically, jump through some hoops.

No. First off, I haven't committed to that woman not to go looking at another bar. But that's the smallest point.

I don't open up at the bar. I don't share who I am with whoever I meet. This is reserved for ONE person. A person that I can actually trust to give my heart and soul to, and to lay bare my inner self, and trust her enough to care for me. I offer that person my life in exchange for the commitment to tend to my needs.

Once that commitment is made comparing marriages to strangers would be silly. I don't pay that woman at the bar's bills for 10 years, raise children with that woman, etc.

Frankly I don't go to bars at all. My sexuality is for one person. It isn't an itch to scratch. It's a soul connection, shared only with my wife.

To use the child analogy...trusting my needs to a woman to take care of is like a woman leaving her 6 month old baby with a man she met to take care of. It's that important and that vulnerable. And again, if he let that baby get hurt, I don't think she's going to care about whether he was in the mood to take care of it.

I don't expect H and I to have a good conversation or interaction unless I'm nice to him. If I want him to do something that's important to me, but that he might not particularly want to do on his own, I make an effort to be nice, charming, appealing and enticing. To me, that's actually divorce-busting. If I'm not the best I can be, why would he want to spend time with me? So that brings me to (and I'm sorry if I'm rambling, but this is ongoing thinking induced by an ice cream-high) - isn't expecting sex from your spouse without having to 'jump through hoops' the opposite of what DB'ing is about? At least when the hoops are held in the same place all the time? How can you realistically expect your spouse to want the same thing you want at the same time you want it?
(I should perhaps mention somewhere in here that the longest time H and I have gone without ML is 2 weeks. I don't know if that even qualifies as a SLM, he has been unhappy so I guess it's all about what your expectations are.)

Conversation is different. You can talk to anyone.

That said, I do think that there is an emotional bonding that occurs with conversation, and some conversation can only (or SHOULD only) be discussed with spouse.

Sometimes H might not be in the mood to talk. He's human. But he needs to make it a priority to BE in the mood to talk, or to talk when he's NOT in the mood...if he wants to stay married. I wrote about this in my last thread.

So should H walk around expecting you to jump in the sac whenever he snaps his fingers? No. Should he trust you to meet his needs throughout the various ups and downs of the marriage? Yes.

Is a two week low water mark make a sex starved marriage? Doesn't sound like it to me. There could still be issues if it was physical only and the other stuff wasn't being achieved (see the list of needs sex satisfies), but from a frequency standpoint I would think 2-3 times/week average would be dreamy for 99% of men.

I'm feeling overwhelmed and disorganized today so I may not be making much sense. I saw our MC and afterwards realized that I would probably like to separate. I talked to H about it briefly tonight.

Why don't you keep your mouth shut until you feel that way for six months or a year straight? Or do you think making lifelong decisions when you are fatigued, depressed, needy, resentful, frustrated, and resigned is a good move?

The reason is that we just don't seem able to get past our issues. He says the reason he took up contact with OW again earlier this year is because he and I were having a difficult time. I honestly don't see where it was so bad. He had bailed from MC and wouldn't have any R talks.

All rationalization from both parties. Him rationalizing his behavior, you rationalizing your desire to quit. Neither of you are truly self-aware.

I can't put all my heart and soul into a relationship with someone who only wants to be committed when things are good, and thinks that a difficult time lasting more than a week or two is an acceptable reason to reconnect in secret with last year's AP. I just don't think I can risk it again.

You casting H in that role doesn't make that who he is. He is a unique person, outside of your narrative, that is capable of growth and change.

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Regarding the sex related posts, I will say this: The same holds true for men on meeting their obligations to their women.

Men should not have to jump through hoops to have their sexual needs met.

Women should not have to jump through hoops to have their emotional needs met.

The point is that Julie was right, it's not tit for tat, it's about each of us doing our role regardless of the other. If everytime she slacks, I slack worse, then it will end in divorce. Only by both giving 100% all the time can it work. Get this- both parties will FEEL like they always give 100% and the other person is slacking...every spouse in the world can spin that story...but they are both wrong. Perception is a mother f.


As for your relationship, I have said this to others and I'll say it to you. Your feelings are powerful. Your thoughts follow your feelings. You can't follow any of them right now. They won't steer you true. You MUST follow your beliefs, and use your character to make good decisions.

That DOESN'T mean you should take H back unconditionally. It just means don't be in a rush to figure it out based on how you feel this month. Be strong enough to take care of yourself and nurture yourself. Go slow. If he is acting in ways that truly don't jive for you, you are WISE to pick up on that. In that case keep DBing and taking care of yourself, don't burn any bridges, and see what happens. Maybe the fact that you keep moving forward will trigger a change in him beyond what you'd expect. Maybe you have to keep walking away because he's not giving you any reason to take another risk. Who knows. But don't be 'done', just don't get attached or have expectations right now.