I've been looking through the MLC threads this morning, looking for inspiration and guidance. I found this little gem, and I'm going around sharing it with everyone I think it may be helpful to. Sometimes everything just gets to be too much, and I forget where I'm supposed to be focusing. It really helped me redefine where I want to go, and how I'm going to get there. I hope it helps you a bit, too.
Originally Posted By: ericmsant2
Consider the DB basic principals....
1) Healthy boundaries. 2) Better communication 3) GAL 4) "act as if" 5) Change how you look at things 6) Keep a positive outlook 7) Personal growth 8) Learning more about you so that you can be all that you can be. 9) Learning to avoid "cheese less tunnels" 10) Love and respect
These principals can be used in all facets of ones life. When used properly....they truly can change you from the INSIDE OUT.
This is fascinating to read, because I think my H could have written something very similar, and I think I have shared your XW's feelings. In our case, H developed resentment and got involved with OW, but he says he tried for years. I expressed unhappiness to H for years, and spelled out what I needed from him to give him what he needed from me, but nothing changed - but I wasn't leaving or cheating on him, that's not my way.
Zues, I wonder about what exactly you tried? If she reacted like me, the anger was frustration over what she saw as unwillingness from your side to give her what she needed.
I think very few women work silently, by themselves on resolving relationship issues. Silence from a woman is rarely a good thing...
I think many men feel that they courted a woman, then married her, and that should prove their love once and for all. My H will say he is simple to please, but he expects me to want to fulfill his needs without doing anything to fulfill mine. He feels that because he is attracted to me on sight, I should be to him. I feel that he puts the cart before the horse in how things should happen. And I feel that he can get what he wants so easily, if he would only invest a little effort in courting me on an ongoing basis. I don't think he feels he should have to. That is frustrating, because I see his pride and ego get in the way of his and our happiness.
And from everything I read, this is exceedingly common. Which is so sad!
I have been following this conversation with great interest as this is the same boat my H and I were in. I know now that my H was in great pain because the lack of intimacy and sex in our marriage and for that I am truly remorseful. I am so sorry that I caused him so much hurt. I know he thinks that my lack of desire meant that I did not love him or was not in love with him, but that was not the case at all. My mistake was not working harder to figure out why my desire disappeared and find solutions. I think with work, cleaning, cooking, and every day life it is so easy for me to just put this aspect of our M on the back burner and say that you will get to it. Well, I never got to it. I guess my H is right in that sex was just was not important to me and because if that we are not compatible and should not be M. It is definitely not my top love language, but that can't be an excuse.
I actually thought my lack of interest in sex was a medical issue, but my doctor was absolutely no help. I even remember thinking not long before BD that I needed to figure it out or else H was going to find it elsewhere. Little did I know that he already had. What I learned after BD is that this has been bothering H for years, even when I felt our sex life was going well. H admitted to having conversations with coworkers for years. He never once had a conversation with me about what he was feeling or what his needs were in this regard. He would just make vague and almost joking comments about how the spark was gone. I now think it was a mix of a lot if things. Not feeling a priority to H, lack of non-physical affection, constant tiredness, work stress, depression, weight gain, often feeling like my H mother instead of his wife, general disconnection, etc. The list can go on and on. My point is I am not sure there is just one cause, but a lot of factors that can lead to a SSM. Zeus, part of me wishes my H would have talked to me like you did your wife, but then I think maybe I still would not have taken it serious. I obviously knew it was a problem without H speaking to me and did nothing. I guess it was just laziness!? Since BD and being on here, I have learned so much about this topic that would have helped. Unfortunately, it is likely too late for my M with H, but I plan to take this knowledge into my next R. I do think as with everything in an M, it is a two way street and it takes two people to have a strong sex life. Going outside if M or having conversations with coworkers are not helping the situation. Clearly my H felt he could not talk to me, so there are things I can do to make sure that I am approachable for these types of conversations. Any thoughts on this aspect??
I will say that Like Painter, I did express to H in detail what my needs were and his only response was that he was not good at being romantic and was not good at those things. He did not follow through either. When it comes down to it, I just wanted him to make me feel special like when we first go together. I realize he needed his needs met to do thise things. Just one big crazy communication/crossed wires issue.
I do think there is a misconception that lack of interest in sex is perceived as a power trip or us intentionally with held. I can see why it might be perceived this way, but by no means was my lack of interest in sex ever premeditated or intentional. I think that is the case with mist women. I am sure there are some that use it as a weapon.
Anyway, not sure I have really contributed to the conversation, but did want to chime in.
Me: 42 H: 40 M: 12 H moved out - 8/2015 I filed - 8/2015
Been Thinking about issue of sexless marriage. I agree. Sex is a physical need, and if you entered marriage with a decent sex life it's reasonable to expect it because you can't go outside of the marriage.
But consider the roles reversed. What if husband was having problems? Perhaps stress or sleep deprivation or weight gain or depression or marital discord? Then comes the anxiety and stress of performing, often making the problem worse.
If wife voiced unhappiness do you think it would improve situation? But perhaps if wife explored the reason behind it. Help relieve stress, take on part time job so husband does not bear brunt of financial stress, cook healthy meals, show husband he's loved no matter what or perhaps just gave husband space in a respectful way. Basically she would have to take the pressure off right? She would have to Focus on the long term gains by fixing the problem instead of addressing it short term.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Been Thinking about issue of sexless marriage. I agree. Sex is a physical need, and if you entered marriage with a decent sex life it's reasonable to expect it because you can't go outside of the marriage.
But consider the roles reversed. What if husband was having problems? Perhaps stress or sleep deprivation or weight gain or depression or marital discord? Then comes the anxiety and stress of performing, often making the problem worse.
If wife voiced unhappiness do you think it would improve situation? But perhaps if wife explored the reason behind it. Help relieve stress, take on part time job so husband does not bear brunt of financial stress, cook healthy meals, show husband he's loved no matter what or perhaps just gave husband space in a respectful way. Basically she would have to take the pressure off right? She would have to Focus on the long term gains by fixing the problem instead of addressing it short term.
[/color]Julie, are you talking about me? LOL. I was staying away from this topic because of this "role reversal" in sex drives but you expressed it for me. In my M I always felt like I was the man as far as sex but some recent interactions (don't worry, I am not cheating) have lead me to believe that I am more normal than I thought. [color:#CC0000]
My H complained about this, too. With good reason. I had a hysterectomy at 38, ovaries and all, that literally killed any drive I had.
We did discuss it a few times. I told him EXACTLY what he could do to get my motor running. I was always willing, I was just "never in the mood" all on my own. His complaint was that I wasn't thinking about it like him. It was the last thing on my mind at the end of the day with 5 kids.
He never did the simple thing I told him would let me know he wanted to fool around - kiss my neck. That would have been all I needed. He never did it, and complained that I didn't make sex a priority.
Reminder, yesterday my XW told me she believed 'divorce is the ultimate sin'. Um. But here we are. Divorced. And she was hurt that I felt it was her choice. Well? She chose to get divorced. And it is the ultimate sin. She can choose a divorce, but she doesn't get to pass herself as if she belongs in the herd of people that don't believe in divorce. I wrote my long post on the idea that people saying "I don't believe in divorce BUT" are actually saying the do believe in divorce, and are just ashamed and unaccountable.
Likewise, there is a lot of BUTs going on with sex. Fo, I recognize that women live in SSM's too and are often the higher drive spouse. For the moment, though, I would like to address all the women with men that left marriages citing lack of sex. Here we go:
If sex is conditional, it won't happen. That's it. There will always be a reason it isn't happening. Where are the women talking about how sex was conditional upon their husband's behavior, and it always happened? No. It either happens no matter what, or it doesn't happen. Or it happens intermittently, and the dry spells and resentment at having to try to constantly measure up to someone else's standards or endure horribly painful stretches of neglect are too much to bear.
Each of you are talking about things H could've done that would've helped made it easier to meet his needs. OK, great. All true. We could write book after book on the subject. In fact, there are books out there, on how to be a good husband to your wife. The problem is while you are discussing what you'd write in your good husband book, and discussing how he could've made it easier, the fact is that somehow none of these men were able to live up to whatever standard was required once sex was made conditional. That includes me. You guys are throwing stuff around like 'if he only bought me flowers' or 'if he only kissed my neck', and act like it was easy for a guy to live up to all of your standards and get what he needed. But the truth is none of them could, and maybe they stopped trying because the very model that they should have to jump through your hoops to be taken care of was so hurtful the only defense they had was to no longer want your love.
The question is when you have a husband that isn't doing what you consider 'a good job', do you use that as justification to not meet his needs? Or do you focus on doing a good job as a wife and leading by example of what it means to be a good spouse?
I would recommend women thinking of sex to husbands along the lines of food to children. Who among you would not feed your children for days at a time and then go on a parental board and post about how there are things they could do that would have made you in the mood to make them a meal? Doesn't that sound INSANE?
Before you tell me I'm going to extremes, let me just explain that I feel looking at it this way will flat out help you understand your H's better, and will help you save your marriage or prevent reruns of this disaster in your next lifetime.
Yes, all of this holds true to a husband's responsibility to his wife. It isn't fair. It isn't easy. But in the end I think we have to lose the role of evaluating our spouses and leave that to God, and instead try to serve our spouses, find joy in fulfilling them and God's wishes, and have faith that at some point you fill find joy in that road, either by having your own needs fulfilled when you expect it least, or by finding a deeper meaning in making a marriage work instead of by critiquing your partner, driving them away, and turning a lifelong commitment into a series of flings with whom the flavor of the decade never is good enough.
Last edited by Zues126; 01/05/1603:31 PM.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
The other point I want to add is that I do think expectations on both ends got in the way in our M. For me, I think that I expected when I got married, even though I am a very independent woman, that my H would be there to take care of me in a number of ways...financially, protective, supportive, took care of bills, health, planned trips and activities, etc. I found for the past 14 years that this ended up being my role primarily due to H's schooling. I would baby him when he was injured or sick, was the primary income, cooked, cleaned, bought random gifts for him, encouraged and supported his schooling, etc. I think I was just craving the idea of him taking care of me and these responsibilities once. He finally got to the point to do this and chose someone else and to walk away. Talk about resentment. I have had to really work on taking a different view. It was really hard when I first found out about A and could not drop it.
The were areas my H was good at was taking care of that I should have been more grateful for.....home improvent, cleaning and the dog. But I felt my personal care and interests seemed low on his radar. To me he was doing those other things because they were important to him, not actually as something for me. I guess that is were resentment and tit-for-tat attitude enters. At least that was my perception. I think this probably affected my view of his masculinity/strength, so in a way it did change my attractiveness/desire for him even though I still feel my H is a very good looking person, but maybe it was more personality. I think that is why I tried pushing his buttons some times as I wanted some sort of reaction to me. To see some strength come out. Not sure if that makes sense at all.
Still lots of muck to work through. Sigh...
Me: 42 H: 40 M: 12 H moved out - 8/2015 I filed - 8/2015
Really understanding what love means, in actions, to your spouse is key.
The love languages was an eye opener for me. My wife and I have different languages, and the one that was least for her was the most for me. Her response to sex wasn't 'I'll try harder, or let's try x,y,z'... it was a flat out NO, and don't ask again. Even hinting would result in a flat out NO, and telling me that even asking was out of the question. When you stop getting 'loved', you find other ways to find it. Porn was in my life already, so it pulled up the slack willingly, and I felt loved. W continued to not get her love language met, but all the nagging over time did get me to do a few more things for her - I grew up some as a man, but like Zues, the conditions placed on her love were so immense, and the bar set so high, I wasn't ever able to reach it. Every time sex might have been an option, my W found something...anything... to deny me.
When I tell people I really hadn't had sex with my wife since our youngest - and she's 7 years old now, people's jaws drop. We tried a few times, but usually when my wife was drunk, when she let the invisible shield down long enough to try.
Reading on blogs and in books about marriage, a sexless marriage is a sure sign of an ending relationship. The addiction masked the true problems, and now my W blames the porn for everything she's doing - which really, is blaming the gun for shooting someone.
Last edited by trumpet; 01/05/1604:06 PM.
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
