Parents: help me parenting while separated (2)

[Ripe]

I have been away since the 28th.
Instead of staying alone at home I accepted a friend's invitation to stay at her place.
So I have now visited two countries, stayed in two capitals and met wonderful people.
I have been away from computers.
My kids are always on my mind.
I have talked to STBXW three times. Haven't talked to her this year.
I know now I can live without her and don't miss her a lot, only the idea of marriage. I would keep M mainly because of the kids.
But I am not still at the point where I can wish STBXW good luck and farewell.
This new year will bring so much.
I can really see how it will be a decisive year.

[Ripe]

Just checked my email.
When STBXW flew home for Christmas she took with her my agreement proposals for the divorce.
She consulted a lawyer back home (paid with my money) and just sent back her counter-proposals.
I cannot understand why, but I feel like crying.
I now realize that I have a hidden hope that at any time STBXW will stop this madness and reconsider.
Having read her email made me understand that it is not going to happen.

[Ripe]

I have been skyping with STBXW about the divorce agreements.
It's hard to do this over the net.
Her distrust in me is so obvious I pointed it out to her.
She replied that she could not trust me since my spying on her with the key-logger program.
I think this is to be expected and I deserve it. However, I would expect her to know that I did that during a very specific period and for very specific reasons.
I replied I also had motives for not trusting her. She wanted to know what were they and I told her she had broken the marriage vows. Should not have done that, of course.
Anyway, it is sad and uncomfortable to be negotiating with a distrust approach.
STBXW considers that I am dragging the procedure because I want to keep the marriage. That is not the case.
It might come to that, though, since the amount of alimony she requests is bigger that what I am spending with the kids right now.

[Ancaire]

I've been looking through the MLC threads this morning, looking for inspiration and guidance. I found this little gem, and I'm going around sharing it with everyone I think it may be helpful to. Sometimes everything just gets to be too much, and I forget where I'm supposed to be focusing. It really helped me redefine where I want to go, and how I'm going to get there. I hope it helps you a bit, too.

Consider the DB basic principals....

1) Healthy boundaries.
2) Better communication
3) GAL
4) "act as if"
5) Change how you look at things
6) Keep a positive outlook
7) Personal growth
8) Learning more about you so that you can be all that you can be.
9) Learning to avoid "cheese less tunnels"
10) Love and respect

These principals can be used in all facets of ones life. When used properly....they truly can change you from the INSIDE OUT.

[Ripe]

Thank you, Ancaire, it is very thoughtful of you.
And, more importantly, you offered me a gift on the same day I had some realizations that I hope will help me grow.
Yesterday some colleagues invited me for dinner. I said no at the beginning, as usual, but in the end went with them to the restaurant.
Another couple joined us and with them came a friend, a beautiful Russian. She sat by my side. We talked and by the end of the meal I realized I am still alive and the world still has a lot to offer. I will invite her out in a couple of days. If I do it, it will be the first time in more than twenty years that such a thing happens. I am not expecting anything, I only want to enjoy a great company.

I then realized I had to settle a time limit for my DB'ing efforts.
I can say the last time I felt happiness with STBXW was more than seven years ago. I have been DB'ing for more than one year now.
I will be doing this until 2017. Then I move on.

I was then in bed when I received a phone call from SIL. She told me STBXW had informed their father about the divorce. STBXW comes from a traditional family. Her father was the only one not knowing about our separation. He was told that I could not spend the holidays with them because I had to work.
I know STBXW was really afraid of this conversation. She respects her father very much and knows he will never understand her daughter. I also know that SBTXW faced this conversation as the ultimate challenge. She has now overcome the obstacle and the signing of the papers is what's missing.

Coincidently, I was reading, as I do often, old posts.
I have following Mutatio's sitch and his fear of detachment because of the fear of stop loving his wife. I loved Mona's explaination and suggestion. I also found this old post:

...and to add to this list is the reassurance that you will NOT lose the love you have for your spouse when you reach total detachment.

Many times the fear of the LBS is such that if they leave the MLC'er alone, detaching from their drama, the love will disappear.

I promise, based on my own experience, that it does NOT kill the love; in fact, you must love them enough to let them go this way......detachment is necessary for your mental health.

I have therefore taken the conscious decision of letting my STBXW go.
She must follow her path and find her own answers. She needs to find herself. And then we will see.
I will be loving her at a distance. A quiet, persistent and nondemanding love.

[Ancaire]

Wow. That is a LOT to happen in one day.

I have ONE question for you. It's about the woman you met. Is this sudden decision to let your W go less about your W, and more to do with wanting to move on with someone else?

If your decision is coming from a desire to be with someone else, it's not a good decision, Ripe. It makes sense, absolutely, but you're not even D yet. You have no real business asking someone new out when you're still involved with your wife.

I hope I'm not sounding too harsh. I completely support your decision to cut W loose. It makes a lot of sense. It's just that you haven't been able to do that, yet. Suddenly, you meet someone you'd like to date, and you're ready to let her go?

My worry is that you're detaching for the wrong reasons. It's best to be divorced for a while. Be still with yourself for a time, and then move on. It's not fair to a new person in a R to get tangled up with someone who is still in another R. You run the serious risk of hurting an innocent party if you begin moving on before you're truly ready.

This whole business? Awful. Lonely. Heartbreaking. The situation demands healing before you can really move on. I think you're part of the way there. But all the way? No, you're not.

The desire to be close to another human is natural. You are getting no judgement from me on that. I completely understand. A rebound relationship is always a mistake. I think you might be setting yourself up to head in that direction.

Please give this some thought, and let me know what you think?

[Ripe]

Ancaire, you cannot start to understand how your thoughts are important to me.
I had to stop for a minute (or days).
Let's see.
This is what I believe in.
I believe in marriage. I believe that fighting for my family is a just cause.
I love this forum for many reasons, and one of them is that someone else will express my thoughts far better than I ever will be able to.
(This)

Self-sacrifice is not a popular concept in our world. Stories of faithfulness in the face of rejection or even just lack of something in return make the news because it's so rare these days.
Standing for a marriage that is in distress, particularly when one spouse seems to have wigged out is looked down upon by many as being enabling or being that doormat. Few recognize the honor in remaining true to your vows until the bitter end. Few have the stomach to truly endure the "worse" in "for better or worse."
(...)
In that light, a left behind spouse honors their marriage and their spouse by remaining their rock - that lighthouse that can lead the other home one day.
But damned if you don't go through some crap along the way.
Most people just aren't in to that kind of crap.

(From Zues)

The reason vows and commitment are so important to me is that they provide standards when our own standards might be suspect.
Kind of like laws, religious beliefs...they keep us in check and tell us the right way to behave when we feel like being destructive or selfish. We do what we believe is right as much of the time as we can.
Wedding vows are the same. "for worse, in sickness". All in the vows as FULL DISCLOSURE that things will be difficult. But that we are committing to remain true through that.
If the vows are just words then it becomes a matter of when we feel like leaving. To me that's not a marriage. That's a ride in the sunshine until it inevitably starts to rain.

Everything that is happening to me right now seems to serve a purpose in my life and that it is not just happening randomly.
I am reading the book "More Language of Letting Go: 366 New Daily Meditations", from Melody Beattie.
The meditation from January 4 reads:

God, help me be aware of my limits. Give me the strength not to compromise the values that I need to help me on my path.

Isn't this what you're trying to tell me, Ancaire?
But, besides having decided to DB for one year more, I have also decided to adhere to the "one year after D ruling" before dating again. I know I am not ready.
I haven't decided to let STBXW loose because of the woman I met. There is no cause-effect relation here. STBXW telling her father was, I think, the main cause. I realized nothing I do right now will stop her path of destruction, so I just have to let her walk her own path and let her find where it leads.
I want to invite this woman for dinner because I need to know myself better. If you have read my post describing my visit to the disco, you will know I have no confidence in me. I want to improve that aspect of my character, I want to test myself.
I don't want a relationship right now, although now that I am typing this I recall vividly STBXW and I lying in bed eighteen months ago and STBXW telling me "what you would really need is a woman who would have sex with you in all possible positions" after having rejected me for the hundredth time.
I don't want a relationship nor sex (despite my STBXW's advise, which I considered at the time as an insult - I would much rather have sex with her in all possible positions). I just want to have the strength and courage to invite this woman for dinner. I just want to find that I have it in me. If she accepts I want to have some pleasant moments with her and it stops there. This would make wonders to my ego.
I stopped being a man to my wife a long time ago. I would do anything to please her. I was a puppet wiggling my tail around her. Covert contracts were the norm through the last years of our marriage. Several times I should have taken the lead and told her "I want this from you". Other times I should have just acted without prior announcement (and I am not talking only about sex here).
I want to be confident, strong, leading. Even now my STBXW talks to me like I am a student and she is the teacher (she is a teacher). I want to change this through action.
And I hope this is not sounding as a lame excuse to have a date.

[Sotto]

Hi Ripe, I'm just going to offer my 0.2c - How does asking this woman out fit with your desire not to date for a year after D? You're in a similar timeline to me and not D yet.

What you post does sound like an excuse to have a date. But as you say, you are not ready for dating? I think if you find a woman attractive and want to ask her for dinner - that's a date. So, how do you think this is going to go?

You're going to enjoy the affirmation from her? Enjoy that she finds you attractive? Enjoys your company? But then you're going to tell her you're standing for your M and not dating just now?

I think the safest thing is to avoid this all together and not get yourself into a convoluted situation. Your post above has the ring of - yes I'm a principled guy, and I still hope to save our M (tho I'm letting go of the rope) - but Man, this girl was attractive and made me feel good about myself, so I'm gonna ask her out anyway.

Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you decide. However, I think it's important to be honest with her and with yourself.

Take care my friend.

[Ancaire]

Hi, Ripe! I'm glad you've given it some thought. I'm particularly pleased to hear you've decided to adhere to the one-year rule. That is a really wise decision.

As far as wanting to go out, I really understand that, too. Except (and here she comes!) my instincts are screaming, "Danger! Danger!"

It's all well and good to think of it as a casual date. But seriously, how does a married man ask someone out on a date? If you're honoring your values, isn't full disclosure necessary? If you can think of a way to ask, as well as let her know that you're married and only interested in friendship, well...I'm still not sure. Why?

What if you go out on this date and a bell goes off? What if you find yourselves attracted to one another? What then? Do you stop at one date, wishing that the time were right to ask her out again? Couldn't that interfere with your DB commitment?

I suppose I'm asking why tempt trouble? I get what you're saying about wanting to have courage to ask her out. You already have strength and courage. Look where you are! You on the DB website committing to DB for another year, and then adhere to the one-year rule after that! If that's not strength and courage, I don't know what is.

Social interactions are an area you feel weak? There are a million ways to build confidence in that area without asking someone out. Be around people. Do some volunteering. Be in situations you're forced to interact with men and women alike. That will do wonders for your ego! You'd be doing good work, and meeting other people.

Look, I would never judge you if you decide to go for it and ask her out. I just see possible danger and wonder why you'd want to risk it, when there are other ways to build confidence. You're pretty brave just baring your soul here...far more than you realize. Yes, we're behind a screen - but these are real lives, real feelings we pour out. It's not easy at first, but it gets easier.

I'd advise not asking her. But if you really feel like it's something you need to do, then do it. Only you can decide what is right for you, and none of us will judge you - ever. If you do decide to ask her, then please post here so that we can help you if you run into unexpected trouble.

I'm not sure where you live, but are there volunteering opportunities available? You want to pick something in which you have to work with all kinds of people. What are your interests? Do you like animals? The more you have to interact with strangers, the more comfortable you will feel doing it all the time.

What are your thoughts?

[Zues126]

Hi Ripe, thanks for the greeting. I hadn't read your sitch before. I think because you aren't a super frequent poster.

I read up on your timelines. Sorry you're in this mess.

I get the whole confidence thing. I'm not good with women, although I don't know that I'm bad with them. I just don't really play the game. All I've ever wanted was one woman. To me the idea of being attractive is designed to give you a better choice of women for your life partner or the option of playing the field. I don't play the field. And as for choice of partner, I really believe marriage is more about being appreciative for who the person you're with is, not about finding someone that does more for you than the next person. People that think that way divorce because the grass is always greener.

So for me, no dating. I'll chill with the kids a few years. When the time is right I'll throw out an online profile and see who wants to chat. But plenty of time for that ahead.

But that's just me. I know Mozza was a big proponent of dating. Everyone has their own journey.

Take care!