Z - Is your W seeing an IC? I'm just remembering a topic we touched on last month, and so much of what you're saying about her hits me soundly. I'm going to be wide open here, and it's hard for me, so forgive me if I stumble around a bit.
I love intimacy with my H. But no matter how hard I tried, at times the sex act made me sick. It wasn't a matter of having childhood abuse running through my head at the same time, that would have been gross, it's more like I got sick out of nowhere, and then had to later think about what on earth had happened.
Needless to say, H didn't know I was feeling physically ill...but he could feel the change. I went from loving to going through the motions. It was never anything he did. It just bubbled up out of nowhere. It was even more true when it came to oral sex. I loved to please him, but at times I felt degraded, controlled - and I don't think it was anything he was doing.
I was happiest when we would keep it light. Cuddling, talking, going out and doing things together. Too much closeness and I'd start to feel suffocated. Until I read your comments, I've never actually realized all this. But I do know where it comes from.
The feeling of the sickness comes from my childhood, no question. H never did a thing that could have caused that to bubble up. It has to be deeply ingrained in my subconscious. I remember sobbing after ML back when we first got together and it was so intense. I literally couldn't handle it. I'd feel dirty afterwards! I was a married woman, doing what comes naturally with her H, and it made me have a negative physical reaction. I see so many shades of my behaviours in what you're describing about your W.
Until this moment, I hadn't really put it together. Now I'm realizing how far back my counseling is going to have to go. It also begins to answer why it is my H said he doesn't believe I love him. Wow. I can tell you for myself - I loved him, still do, as much as I am capable. I loved him more than I've loved anyone. But maybe the trauma from my childhood, that I never discuss has done more damage than I realize. I'll be thinking a lot about this now.
I'm bringing it up, because if your wife isn't willing/able to really dig into this with a therapist, she may never be capable of the kind of closeness you're longing for. You may have to be content believing her when she says she loves you. I never lied to H about that. I did love him. But I realize now, how very much the abuse in my childhood really crippled me in certain areas as an adult. I never realized the full scope until seeing it in your situation.
Please don't get overwhelmed with my rambling thoughts - but I think I'm on to something. When an adult abuses a child, it scars that child forever. It literally changes who they are. I do love, passionately and deeply, but I realize I had physiological reactions that had everything to do with that abuse. I couldn't handle certain things. I think I can fix that, now that I know what I'm dealing with - but I'm not going to be able to do it without a counselor helping me deal with it.
So, partly a possible answer to why you're not getting the intimacy you crave, and partly a revelation on my behalf. Wow. We really were meant to "meet". I'm humbled and amazed right now.
Anc,
I have been waiting for you to make a post like this. Ever since your revelation and deep question about how you could love a member of your family who abused you.
There are two books I would like you to read on Kindle and I really think information will help you. Firstly you are not alone, one in 6 girls is abused in some way sexually before the age of 10. That's one out of every six women you know. Hardly a minority. Others like V are abused in adulthood. That is a huge number. Others are in physically abusive homes and or with neglect.
It's a big number.
If no one has actually ever said this, it is not your fault. No matter what anyone said to you, in no way is this ever the responsibility of a child. Ever. It's the perp who is responsible, they target children. You were a target for a selfish adult.
Next is that this is the child's version of Stockholm syndrome, as a child we are dependent for our survival on the adults around us. We learn to use one of four coping mechanisms to survive, Flight, Fight, Freeze and Fawn. As we mature we can chose a secondary mechanism to use in addition to the primary one. Each of these creates 'habits' and emotions in us which trigger.
When you were with your WH early on, these mechanisms were triggered, absolutely as it should be from unhealed childhood abuse.
Why am I telling you this?
Firstly, Anc you are extraordinary, since you joined this board you have shown yourself as capable of extraordinary growth and shift.
Digging into this stuff is going to bring up deep emotions and trigger flashback emotions. It is not an easy journey and it can be a lonely one too. You may take several real steps forward and a couple backwards. It may also bring you down.
Secondly I was not placating you when I said the day I see real anger on your posts I will put up the victory flag. Why is that? Well the one trait I don't see in Anc is the fight response. And anger is going to be a good friend to you in healing this FOO. Because you are going to heal this FOO so that you can move forward with your life. I can see your determination.
See this as the start of the next phase of shift. If you like we can examine your post above and if and only if you say V it's ok. We can sidebar too, if that's helpful, whatever you want to do is fine with me. --------------------
Just one warning the IC you need has to understand complex PTSD and understand that this doesn't make you disordered. Many IC I have approached want to use DBT and CBT therapies for cPTSD. These are appropriate I think in later recovery but other help is needed to start with.
There are two things really important to know, I learned this by hard experience. We need to silence our inner critic first and foremost and then to recorganise flashbacks (like the one you describe above) and feel the emotions. One of those is anger.
I have bought borrowed and read on line many books on cPTSD and the two I have found most useful are: The Body Keeps The Score (Mind Brain and Body in the Transformation of Trauma) Bessel Van Der Kolk, technical, factual and based on ACES research, biological and completely dispassionate
Complex PTSD from Surviving to Thriving which is practical and compassionate
These reactions are feelings which arise as if you were reexperiencing the trauma, your body is designed to do this Anc, it's how it's made. It is ensuring your survival by its reactions, doing that which is imperative to get you to adulthood. You appear to me to process in for action and knowledge to integration. So I think understanding what is happening may be of enormous value.
----------------- If I had my way these abusers would be put into jail and treated with the same disrespect they showed us. You are a survivor, many don't make it to being a mother and considering a career. Also know that those who were silently standing around not taking action on this abuse are also if not more responsible for abuse. To do so knowing a child is being abused is neglect and contributing to the problem. I would rip their eyeballs out then they have a reason to say they looked the other way.
I am around if you want to address this, and once again Anc, this is not your fault, no matter what WH or anyone else says. As humans we are designed to cope this was from abuse to ensure our survival.
I am walking this road too, different abuse, different age but same cPTSD.
Big hugs
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 01/05/1612:27 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Anc I think you are selling yourself way too short. Why would you agree to so little. You are entitled to so much more. Do not agree to anything without a lawyer. Worst case scenario would be 50/50. And you are agreeing to so much less. I am with Painter on this one, let the L handle everything
Jpeg - I wasn't stopping with that! LOL That's just what I need to get out of the house. He so desperately wants me to go, and I'm willing (it's a rental) but I can't just walk out with a suitcase in my hand. He needs to be practical. I have had a couple of e-mails back and forth with L today, with many more to follow tomorrow, while we work all this out.
I actually am fighting for more. At first, I was resigned to being stuck moving in with my mother. I really don't want to do that. Now, I realize I don't have to, either. He doesn't want to, and I was afraid to push for fear of making him mad, but I don't care anymore. I'm not moving in with my mom. He's going to have to help me start out fresh, elsewhere, whether he wants to or not. He's not even being reasonable.
I'm so thankful for my L! She kept pointing this out, but I wasn't ready to hear it yet - but she was wise enough to keep me from agreeing to anything I'd regret. Now, I understand. I will be insisting on quite a bit more.
V - I guess I don't mind where we talk about it. I just don't really like discussing it, but I realize it's important. I felt a real urge to help Z...it's probably the first time I've ever used my own experience to help someone else. It still made me sick to my stomach.
The truth is, I fear I was born with a big "VICTIM" sign somewhere on me. I was preyed upon as a child. Later as adult, I was victimized again at 22. I really struggle with what it is about me that makes me such a target. This thing with H feels like yet another violation. I really trusted him, and I find out he was never worthy of my trust.
You're right...I make some progress, and then I start sliding backwards. I have never, since I reached adulthood, blamed myself for what happened to me as a youngster. It just hurts, because the man I'm talking about is my grandfather. I loved him. But he really damaged me...and if it were anyone else, I'd be on board with having him castrated. But I would beg for forgiveness on his behalf, because he wasn't all bad. He had this awful secret side...and then he had the side I adored.
How do you truly wrap your mind around that? There's just no way, really. The second violation, when I was 22, was a friend of a friend. He slipped me a drug, and I have no memory of the event - but I knew what had happened right away the next morning. There was "evidence" everywhere. It makes me sick, that I have no idea what was done to me other than the obvious. I didn't turn that one in, either. I was so embarrassed to have been in that situation to begin with. But I did spend the next several weeks on pins and needles praying I wasn't pregnant. I don't know what I would have done then.
Thankfully, it wasn't the case, but I learned a lesson. So, giving my trust to H? So incredibly difficult. But I did - and then he betrayed me, too. What on earth did I do to give off such a signal that it was okay to use and abuse me? Childhood, no excuse. That was not my fault. Adulthood, I thought I was safe. I was in a group, with friends. They didn't even know what was happening. They thought I got sleepy. Marriage? Why shouldn't I trust my H? I thought that's what it was all about.
Okay. I'm crying right now. I'm so tired of crying. I'm also terrified to go out into the world or to trust anyone ever again. I don't see trusting happening again anytime soon, frankly. I'm not angry about that...just really, really sad. I literally put up walls in the form of weight. Now that I have to lose that weight to save my life, how am I going to feel safe? I'm in big trouble.
I know this is rambling, disjointed...I just hate discussing this - but it is part of my life...and yeah. It screwed me up.
