There are a couple of obvious questions I want to ask.
What exactly does intimacy look, feel and behave like in relation to you?
Intimacy to me, is closeness & sharing. Closeness in terms of emotionally or physically near to someone. Sharing is giving and taking what is offered to us from someone else. I am sure there is more, but in a nutshell, that is what intimacy is. If it is one sided in any way...the lack of sharing makes it something else. ..that we have all experienced.
It could be a sexual encounter or a walk holding hands, a phone call with a lover you have not seen in weeks. Merely sitting on the couch is not necessarily intimate, but if there is shared warmth or expression of love given then more so. Sex doesn't not guarantee intimacy truly either. Women can disassociate and the experience becomes nothing but motions and is unfulfilling.
I don't know that intimacy even requires two people to be in love wither, certainly the sharing part is more rewarding if they do
What does it feel like, even today i have always felt 'intimacy' in my stomach / abdomen. Not just anticipation, but during and after. Feeling the warmth of a woman in my arms and her holding tight. It us the difference between hugging your sister and your college girlfriend.
How does it behave? Not sure i get what your looking for,, but the sharing drives me for more closeness. I know that has been an issue over the last 1/2 decade at least where i seek more closeness and wife cannot / will not reciprocate. If her lack of desire for intimacy keeps the sharing to minimum, it makes a lot of the time we are together, just motions.
How will you know when you have it?
I have always felt when it was there. When i was 16 i worked with a girl, we were friends. She used to stand next to me and hold her pinky finger in mine. Mixed with glances and fun conversation, this was very intimate to me. A college friend, used to sit on the same chair as me with her arm around each others waists so we didn't fall off. We would spend the evenings out like that, sharing the company and enjoyment if music. This was a woman who i only had sex with once, but we were very close in terms of conversational topics, knowledge, etc. There was sharing., time together, etc.
The opposite is if there is no sharing or real closeness. An example, if i give my wife a leg / back rubdown, sometimes there is intimacy...sometimes not. Me physically touching her body is not enough, me sharing myself is not enough, it becomes clinical sometimes. I can massage her, back, butt, inner thighs almost the same way every time (often a erotic prelude to a sexual experience between us), but instead of feeling the closeness she will discuss mundane topics to keep the emotional closeness to a minimum, not allowing it to become more. The last time she gave me oral sex (once in last 4 year) i had asked for it and was all worked up. ..Anyway it was so mechanical and distant that, even though it all worked like it supposed to, but was just so unfulfilling i told myself i would never ask again. There was shame afterwards that I have not been able to pinpoint either, something maybe had to do with me asking and knowing after that she did not want to do it.
What are the LLs and is this a factor?
My primary LL are PT and AoS. I have felt intimacy through conversations and outings QT. I can pull through the memory and find examples where, QT WoA and gifts have been intimate, but these are not strong driving forces for me so my brain likely diminished the importance. A couple of examples (both made me cry) - wife bought me a guitar with lessons for xmas last year. She went through and rediscovered a dream of something i always wanted to do, just never did and she made it a reality.
For words, wife finished her degree program this summer. For 2.5 years she worked towards it at nights and weekends. I shouldered the brunt of everything else because i wanted her to succeed (and at the beginning i was trying to curry favor - i know now, then i was a dope). Anyways, the whole time she never said thank you, not once. After graduation, she gave me her Stoll with a very thoughtful 'thank you, couldn't have done it without you' style letter written on it. it was very intimate WoA.
What have you done to seek that intimacy?
Does groveling count Seriously, i have spent a good deal of effort trying to figure out what she wants and needs and have tried to fulfill these needs for a long time. I tried this for ao long with the hopes that she would reciprocate. I have since learned that this s BS and is not fair, not to her and certainly not to me if she is not willing to share intimacy.
I have since given from a place of love without much expectation of return. I have also tried creating situations where intimacy could happen. Being in a constant position to receive intimacy, especially when you are sometimes just not going to get any, well that is difficult to do. To do this without expectations is not been easy, no doubt.
Basically i am left waiting for her terms instead of me reaching out for rejection...which was so often, maybe not near as much now...but i dont try nearly as much now as I used to. Sad really. Fear of rejection and not wanting to put pressure on her...not a great recipe for Stud-Muffins.
We both initiate hugs, cuddles and conversation. A few times i have started a make out session where it was not going to go anywhere beyond kissing and lite petting. We both enjoyed that very much.
My big issue / question that i have struggled with, how do you continue to give without an expectation for return, while not having your needs met...or at least not enough? We fall into the trap here, whereas we keep saying we are responsible for our own happiness. That doesn't mean that i should be happy without feeling love and intimacy, which of course you cannot do on your own.
How does sex fit in?
To me, sex can be the apex of intimate relationship. If there is sharing and desire from both it is wonderful. Over the last decade, that relationship has dwindled. I have seen her check out far more times than not. I feel her the last few times, differently, more engaged but who can tell if this is a spark of the future or the past.
I loved the closeness that i used to feel with sex when we were younger. Now, it just isn't there near as much, sex or intimacy. We are in a starved marriage.
Does sex start with or finish with intimacy?
Lately,, more shades of intimacty before intercorse. After, not so much. When she climax, she wont even let me touch her, ahe becomes hypersensitive...i want to hold her close, but just doesnt happen. Then in the days after, more withdrawn from other lesser forms of intimacy too. Sample size is small over last couple of years. It us as if sometimes i feel like she just cannot handle it.
Weird tidbit, most times ahe cant handle me holding her hand she instead reverses the grip so that it is more neutral or her holding mine. Sometimes not the case. I am thinking that is tell tell sign of her not wanting to be controlled or owned or expected of things...which has been prevalent in many interactions to date.
What does it look, feel and behave like to W?
Not sure what you are asking here. I can dig deep, just not sure what u looking to get.
Whose responsibility is it?
Should be both, but while we are 'rekindling our friendship, where none was for years' it is more on her. She said multiple times that she didn't want to pretend anymore, when it came to sex or closeness....i guess i just assumed it meant she no longer attracted to me. I know that it could be deeper, like to the point where she could NOT allow me to touch her as she felt used by me for sex when our friendship had dwindled, and well, we know that in conjunction with the past hurts usually amounts to bad outcomes. Some kind of transference, right? At the time she would cringe at my touch or peer at me with eyes of hate when i walked into a room. Yes our friendship was dead and i was as to blame as she. I am here so i am giving her time. I have made it a point of giving her the space she needs, but damn is that hard. I am giving her benefit if doubt on her motives, certainly she is not breaking down the door to get out, she reaches for me at night, we talk and laugh together, we have been planning nights and weekends out for the upcoming year already. Sigh, just so phucking stupid how long it took to figure all of this out. So hard to know that our marriage could be better IF only.
Now i am not dumb to the fact this can all be manipulation from her, but she would be such a dark soul to go this deep...that i really cant fathom that and haven't seen the evidence, just depression, self-hatred and resentment.
As always not now V or hold on there .......
Id tell you, if you were out of bounds.
Thank you so much for your time, this was good look. I am so grateful of your patience with all of us folks here.
Do I sound like I am just impatient, I get that feeling after rereading my own typed words.
