Zeus ... It's late here in the UK ...I hope to sleep a little but before that I will reread the detachment and validation threads.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Notice that none of it has ANYTHING to do with WAW. Detaching is about YOU. Not believing anything is about YOU (in particular, not being controlled by her hints that you aren't trustworthy, or trying to steer your ship by her spew). No expectations is about YOU. GAL is about YOU. Taking care of yourself...you see the pattern
I think this is so important. When you talk about 'validating', while that's good, the fact is that until you are detached and in a better spot it really doesn't matter what you do. You can try to follow the rules (and should!) but the truth will seep out, either by your reactions, or by R talks, or by slips, etc. There is no way to bluff your way through. You truly have to let go. Not to win her back, but because you can't control the outcome and might not be able to.
All in way of saying make detaching your first priority. Validating can also lead to attachment and expectations (am I validating well enough to make her want to give me another chance yet???). Validating should ultimately be for YOU as well, not to win her back, but because you want to grow as a man and part of that is seeing the other person's point of view.
Later IITL.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
1. You had an R talk. It takes two to have a talk. If she brings it up you can either validate, or you can leave.
2. You didn't validate. She told you what she wanted. You didn't validate, but instead disagreed, leading to:
3. Pursuing. Instead of validating, you restated what you wanted.
Hi Zeus
She initiated the R talk, I said I didn't want to talk. She said we needed to talk sometime, and the events of the day had brought things to a head.
NB The previous 5 minutes she had led up to it by saying what a good man and father I was, and how I was the second most important man in all of her life (after her father) and she would always want the best for me. - soft soap for the R talk I know.
I guess my choice at the point was to walk away. But the convo started and W stated she wanted a separation and after 2 years ( the legal time in the UK for no fault divorce) , a divorce.
At this point I couldn't validate, validating is agreeing? So I could only state my view or walk away without answering?
What choice did I have?
Edit: our posts crossed so things are a little clearer now. Thanks again Zeus
Last edited by isittoolate; 01/03/1611:48 PM.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
W came into my room at 5 am to talk as she knew I wasn't asleep.
She said she felt I would be writing down every conversation between us and felt paranoid with me in the house.
I said I understood as I had been paranoid for 4 months. I said I wished she hadn't seen the journal but I couldn't undo what she had seen.
Essentially she was itching for another R talk. This situation can't continue etc. we need to have an adult conversation about the future etc. I was trapped in bed and could either say nothing or state my position.
I stated my position. I believe in marriage , marriage vows, for better for worse. She said we can't stay married especially after yesterday and how she feels paranoid about every interaction between us.
She said that she wants what's best for the boys and that would be an amicable divorce. I said divorce would be the worst thing for the boys and I didn't want to become a part time dad and her a part time mum. She said the boys would cope as we are nice people.
I said people forgive and feelings change.
She feels she is on the edge of a breakdown especially with what's happened to her father. This limbo needs to change and she doesn't want to feel like I am the enemy. She respects me and always wants to feel that way towards me.
Eventually she went to work.
I noticed she has taken off her wedding rings and removed two wedding photos from the dresser in the MBR. Also she has covered up a 3rd photo.
This hurts.
Last edited by isittoolate; 01/04/1606:21 AM.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
In the short term I need her to feel safe and secure in the house. To be able to relax and reduce/eliminate the paranoia .
She feels I will journal every conversation, and she can't talk to me - there is no trust. I said I would throw away the journal.
I have stopped snooping/spying and will keep a low profile by GALing (I said to her I would keep out of her way - and she replied she doesn't want that!)
I'm not sure how to proceed - stay out of the house or not.
Last edited by isittoolate; 01/04/1606:52 AM.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
W is going to keep coming at me to how we will 'move forward' out of the present limbo of inhouse separation which W feels is unbearable after her discovering me snooping yesterday.
Whether my snooping was justified or not is irrelevant to her.
To quote her : She cant trust me, feels every conversation will be written down, cant bear the tension, is having a nervous breakdown etc etc.
By the way it would probably taken 3-4 weeks before I could move out even if I started looking today.
So what do I want. I dont want to move out, and she cant make me but she might file for a D straight away.
I want to say to her no more R talk until after her fathers funeral in 10 days - then we will talk.
I need a plan, I need options.
I will be in the house for 3 or more weeks minimum - so how do I regain her trust/confidence after the snooping??
Anyone who has read my thread will know that I have done little wrong except snoop (justified by her secretiveness - marriage can have privacy but not secrets) and the big fight we had on her birthday.
I've explained most of my sitch to an old friend today and he agrees - its her [censored] not mine.
Last edited by isittoolate; 01/04/1604:33 PM.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
Did you find anything while you were snooping (either this time or any previous sessions)?
If yes, she has no right to be upset. My wife got angry when she realized I'd been snooping, but I simply said she didn't have a right because I found out SHE was the one that couldn't be trusted. I then followed up by saying that if I hadn't found anything I'd be the bad guy, but since I found incriminating info, I was in the clear.
When I noticed her starting to hide her phone again I called her on it and asked for a transparency plan. We now have an agreement that I can look whenever I want, but that I'll let her know when I do it. She wasn't happy about it, but I was adamant that she needed to EARN MY TRUST. Along those lines, can you frame it around a your lack of trust?Meaning that you were hoping you would't find anything, but felt compelled to look anyway? It might be a bridge to get a transparency plan in place
Me-38 W-38; T-15 M-12; S10 and S6 BD - July 2016; EA confirmed; confronted Aug 2015 EA dissolved 12/2016
Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option - Maya Angelou
OMG, I can't believe your wife snooped on you and read through your journal. I'm sure you must feel like a hostage in your own home and that your wife better move out after such an egregious violation of your privacy. How dare she read your journal. You must feel so angry about that.
See how ludicrous the above sounds? Your wife isn't truly upset about your snooping because she KNOWS she's a liar and it's simply distressing and tiring for her to keep up the facade in the face of your now discovered more thorough snooping. This is her opportunity to blame you and try to convince you it's your fault and grab the high ground before you truly catch her (even if you do catch her now - she'll justify it saying your marriage has been over for awhile and you've been "in-house separated" long before she started dating).
If she's offended about your snooping then she should move out - NOT YOU. You've each snooped so your snooping isn't the "straw that broke the camel's back" anymore than her snooping is. If you don't mind be "a prisoner in your own home" than neither should she - unless she's got something to hide?
Her upset on her birthday was a smoke screen to cover for her behavior PRIOR to her cab ride home when she was certainly with her OM.
There is no such thing as an "amicable divorce". There are certainly unhealthy situations where betrayed spouses suck it up and ACT all nice and happy with their ex-spouses for the presumed benefit of the children but that's just acting. There is nothing truly "amicable" about it.
Amicable means =(of relations between people) having a spirit of friendliness; without serious disagreement or rancor.
Do you really believe Your wife's behavior the last few years towards you followed up by a divorce is really going to bring out the genuine "friendliness" in you? Do you really think you'll be able to have a relationship with her "without serious disagreement" as the inevitable consequences of divorce effect your children? This is the delusions of a wayward wife.
Your wife should be told the truth. If she divorces you - you'll never speak to her again about anything other than the children. You won't be friends. It won't be amicable - EVER (because there is no such thing) and it'll be her fault. You'll move on and be happy eventually. Her - not so much. Even if you wanted to, once you remarry it'll be rude and inappropriate to your new wife for you to have any to do with her. If she ends your relationship - she's choosing to really end it. This "amicable" idea she has is delusional.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Scidad - no smoking gun over the last 4 months - just some circumstantial evidence. I have access to one of her little used email accounts but not her work email and I have recorded conversations in her car and her bedroom. She hasn't bought new clothes, been away for unexpected trip, late nights at work etc. She never uses PC so no keylogger, she only uses smartphone and iPad.
W has been secretive, leading to my suspicions and then snooping, finding more secrets, more snooping, paranoia, then she found my journal dwhich details some of the things I found and my speculation as to why she is a WW - new vibrators, bondage gear ( we had some before BD but this was new- she claims it was for us but not used by us and she bought it with her GFs,) also a tiny amount of cocaine,
Remember for the last month, FIL has taken ill unexpectedly and then died just before Xmas. He sexually abused her and she has always, hated resented him but found that change to love when he was on his deathbed.
I do wonder if she can forgive and then love her father after what he did, then she can do the same with me - I live in hope.
What freaked me out just before NYE is that she took her sex toy kit bag to work - she says she suspected me snooping so removed it to the car but then returned it later that day - she did return it - that is a fact - but I freaked thinking she had taken it to be with OM. I have no evidence for that.
Anyway she saw my journal and now can't trust me and wants out as in the posts above. It's brought forward another BD/ R talk that was going to happen in a few weeks anyway - but she is emotionally raw at this time - so it's the worst time for me.
Tonight has been a lot calmer, she has stopped shaking, was pleasant to me when I arrived home, and cooked me some food - and no R talk. She asked if my IC session had gone well.
I ripped up my journal in front of her and said I would not keep one anymore.
I still need to detach as Zeus says and gal. Tonight I did a 5k run and am maintaining a pleasant , warm , demeanour.
Last edited by isittoolate; 01/04/1607:34 PM.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
Thanks for posting - your comments are always nice to hear!
Isittoolate - was your journal there for YOU, to help YOU? Was the journal there to help the marriage?
The answer is yes - right?
My wife and I are in the same sitch... take a look over at my thread. Your wife is saying the SAME things mine is... and my wife is having the EA! She can't trust me, ha! Why am I snooping?
Anyway, she knows I know her passwords - they'll all be changed by tonight.
Zues is right - GAL is the only way to go. The unfortunate thing is we have kids, so I have to talk with her right now, and decide on dinners and who's driving to and fro for kids events.
What are you thoughts on GAL? How do you think you'll detach from her and sitch?
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
