Julie, Zues made some excellent points in his last two posts. I would urge you to consider his POV. Be strong Julie and pace yourself this could be a marathon.
For the first time in a while, I felt the strong urge to call him and ask him straight up what is going on. Do you want to work on this or no? If he gives me a no, I move on. I have my answer. Sure it's yet another rejection but I Got through it before. If he says yes we can figure out how. I just called and I am happy he did not pick up phone.
The road to reconciliation is a difficult one. If one negative interaction from H is all it takes for you to give up then don't bother going to retrouville. Just file today. It's not fair to him to ask that he puts his heart on the line and opens himself up to recommitting when you aren't up to the challenge yourself.
If, however, you are able to steady yourself, recommit to avoiding any destructive behavior like ending this M, having your own affair and/or rebounding, etc, I think there's a lot of potential here.
You know I care for you whatever you do. Wishing you the best.
Last edited by Zues126; 01/04/1603:37 AM.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Fo, hijack away. Many of our situations are very similar so conversation is helpful to us all. I was actually going to ask Zues the same question.
Was there anything your wife could have done or said to you that would have helped. Was it her leaving that made you examine your role and perhaps desire to fix things in a new way?
I felt pretty easy. Had XW just told me she loved me, given herself to me, and told me that she would find ways to do this more often because she loved me and understood how important that connection was to me...well, that would have been it.
This isn't just speculation. There were a few times in those periods where she did exactly this. In fact, there was a time when I truly felt like the luckiest husband in the world. It was obvious that she was letting me take the lead in the sexual arena, and I never felt more loved or connected.
Then it stopped almost immediately and she was extremely angry with me. She had been in her own pain, and giving herself to me when she was hurt, felt unsafe, and was feeling resentment, well, she just didn't want to do it. She felt used, forced, uncared for. So she stopped.
The problem was that she was much tougher to crack than I was. Shoot, I just gave you the formula for keeping me a happy animal. But a resentful W that is on the verge of being wayward? Shoot, I had no clue how to fix that. I still don't. She was so crazy angry at me it was borderline insanity. I did try a few things to reach out to her, but it wasn't good enough, and I was too needy for her which made her angrier.
Again, I felt like I was easy. If telling your H that you love him and will do anything for him and then backing it up with some physical affection doesn't make him yours forever, then I have no clue. That said...my XW was ***********CRYSTAL********** clear on what I desired from her. I know this because one night I had lost my temper with her. After 1,082,305 attempts of various nature (conversations, begging, pleading, threatening, explaining, emailing, emailing links with articles of men's needs, etc, etc) to explain that I needed more physical affection from her...one day she asked me 'what was wrong'. We hadn't been intimate for over a month. I LOST it. I went over to the calendar and circled a day on the calendar from 36 days ago or whatever, and reminded her that was the last day we had sex. I told her for the rest of our lives I never wanted her to ask me that question again if we hadn't had sex in a week or more, because I had answered it a million times and it wouldn't change. This convinced me that she didn't love me, because either she didn't even know who I was (and understand how essential this need was to me), or she didn't care enough to fulfill it. Needless to say this was another reason she D'd me. I was angry. I raised my voice. She felt threatened. She didn't like the look in my eye, and told me she had PTSD from her angry father. So this didn't lead to her apologizing and us making love. It ended up on her list of reasons she was divorcing me that I was emailed a bit down the road.
As for me wanting to fix things in a new way...I NEVER wanted to be divorced. I don't care how bad the M was. Even if I never had sex again, even if we never SPOKE to each other again, I wouldn't have gotten divorced. I always figured that we were just silently brainstorming for new ways to reconnect without hurting each other. When she asked me to move out it did blow up my universe. At that point I was totally confused, couldn't understand what was happening. I came to DB and was ready to do anything and everything to make the M possible. That said, I still don't know if it could've worked because backburnering my needs wasn't going to work long term for me. I wouldn't have left, but could I have been a good husband to her when I felt perpetual rejection and frustration? Not sure. I don't even know if I could make ANY relationship work. Yes, I'm easy to make happy, but I have struggled to make my women happy, and as a result it hasn't worked out. But yes, I would've given it a try, and I was open to counseling, new approaches, and all about trying to change the dynamic.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues - thanks for sharing this (sorry to jump in Julie). Can I ask for clarification on one sentance: "It was obvious that she was letting me take the lead in the sexual arena, and I never felt more loved or connected." What do you mean here, by "letting you take the lead"... do you mean just not rejecting/saying no, or something else?
Me: 42, H: 38 Married: 12 years (second M for me) 14D, 9D 2015 EA (PA??), porn addict, *pastor/counselor* MLC
At a counselor, he said he wanted the marriage but not to work on himself w/a IC. Piecing?
I want nothing more then for your analysis of my husband to be true. But I am fearful of more rejection and of wishful thinking. The characteristic trait that makes my husband different from you guys is that he did leave and he is ok with divorce. (Yes my husband was the one that differentiated the statement "I can't reconcile" from "I don't want to reconcile". To me the outcomes are the same.)
My husband physically left 6 months ago but for about a year I was living a situation very similar to Fo's or perhaps yours. Husband had basically isolated himself to basement. Did not sleep in same bed as me. Would go to gym or out with friend the only night I did not work. We were living with family and had no privacy. I would ask him to go to hotel for a night and he would tell me he wanted to save money so we could get out of our living situation. Meanwhile he spent money on hotel with friend when they went to concert (I know he was not lying about this) I would initiate rendezvous when we could find privacy and he would say things like "Ithis has to be quick, i have to get back to work" or he wouldn't be able to go because of work obligation. Do you realize how humiliating this is? I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with me physically, but I am also pretty sure that many other women would have sought attention elsewhere. I also obviously suspected affair. During this time I was trying so hard and felt like I was walking on eggshells.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that I may come across as childish, but at this point How can I expose myself to more rejection and more hurt? How do I reach out and maintain pride which has been lost.
(Husband can also rightfully say this about me prior years after kids were born so I know I was not easy to deal with either but I never left and I was always loyal.
Personally I would never have affair. I am way too afraid of diseases and I know how many men think... I would receive no ego gratification from it. But I do long for comradeship and intimacy. I think there are many things I would do differently, but cannot because I have no one right now. I also know that I cannot pine for him for ever. It's not fair to me and I don't want to be waiting for someone that has no real intentions of working on us.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
You don't come across as childish. Your H does. He's acting like an idiot. I've read all your words. You're a smart woman. You have a lot to offer. He's lucky you even give him the time of day. It should be you deciding if you want such a dipsh!t in your life not him being unsure about you. Know this. You have worth and your future will be good regardless of how this comes out. Him I don't know about. He needs you more than you need him. When you truly realize that, and act like it, it'll probably change the dynamic of this situation and he'll end up pursuing you.
One of the issues husband and I had with the love language theory (neither of us read the books only based it on counselor) was that when we were told to apply it we were just way too dysfunctional for it to work.
We both felt like we were being tested and controlled. For example, I had anxiety he would be annoyed if I didn't run out to get him what he wanted and actually didn't do it purposely because I felt like he was testing me to see if I would. He felt the same way regarding spending time with me. Like I would get mad at him if he didn't do something with me therefore he intentionally didn't.
Sounds like same thing with your wife?
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Thank you for those words. Sometimes I feel that way as well.
Realistically though, my husband is probably not as bad as I make him sound. Some of what you guys read is based on how I'm interpreting things as well or what I am choosing to obsess over and write about.
I don't know if I interpret things in a way to villify husband so I can move on easier or in a way that I am to blame in order to make sense of some pretty bad husband behavior.
I'm tired and not making too much sense. Good night
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Fo, hijack away. Many of our situations are very similar so conversation is helpful to us all. I was actually going to ask Zues the same question.
Was there anything your wife could have done or said to you that would have helped. Was it her leaving that made you examine your role and perhaps desire to fix things in a new way?
I felt pretty easy. Had XW just told me she loved me, given herself to me, and told me that she would find ways to do this more often because she loved me and understood how important that connection was to me...well, that would have been it.
This isn't just speculation. There were a few times in those periods where she did exactly this. In fact, there was a time when I truly felt like the luckiest husband in the world. It was obvious that she was letting me take the lead in the sexual arena, and I never felt more loved or connected.
Then it stopped almost immediately and she was extremely angry with me. She had been in her own pain, and giving herself to me when she was hurt, felt unsafe, and was feeling resentment, well, she just didn't want to do it. She felt used, forced, uncared for. So she stopped.
The problem was that she was much tougher to crack than I was. Shoot, I just gave you the formula for keeping me a happy animal. But a resentful W that is on the verge of being wayward? Shoot, I had no clue how to fix that. I still don't. She was so crazy angry at me it was borderline insanity. I did try a few things to reach out to her, but it wasn't good enough, and I was too needy for her which made her angrier.
Again, I felt like I was easy. If telling your H that you love him and will do anything for him and then backing it up with some physical affection doesn't make him yours forever, then I have no clue. That said...my XW was ***********CRYSTAL********** clear on what I desired from her. I know this because one night I had lost my temper with her. After 1,082,305 attempts of various nature (conversations, begging, pleading, threatening, explaining, emailing, emailing links with articles of men's needs, etc, etc) to explain that I needed more physical affection from her...one day she asked me 'what was wrong'. We hadn't been intimate for over a month. I LOST it. I went over to the calendar and circled a day on the calendar from 36 days ago or whatever, and reminded her that was the last day we had sex. I told her for the rest of our lives I never wanted her to ask me that question again if we hadn't had sex in a week or more, because I had answered it a million times and it wouldn't change. This convinced me that she didn't love me, because either she didn't even know who I was (and understand how essential this need was to me), or she didn't care enough to fulfill it. Needless to say this was another reason she D'd me. I was angry. I raised my voice. She felt threatened. She didn't like the look in my eye, and told me she had PTSD from her angry father. So this didn't lead to her apologizing and us making love. It ended up on her list of reasons she was divorcing me that I was emailed a bit down the road.
As for me wanting to fix things in a new way...I NEVER wanted to be divorced. I don't care how bad the M was. Even if I never had sex again, even if we never SPOKE to each other again, I wouldn't have gotten divorced. I always figured that we were just silently brainstorming for new ways to reconnect without hurting each other. When she asked me to move out it did blow up my universe. At that point I was totally confused, couldn't understand what was happening. I came to DB and was ready to do anything and everything to make the M possible. That said, I still don't know if it could've worked because backburnering my needs wasn't going to work long term for me. I wouldn't have left, but could I have been a good husband to her when I felt perpetual rejection and frustration? Not sure. I don't even know if I could make ANY relationship work. Yes, I'm easy to make happy, but I have struggled to make my women happy, and as a result it hasn't worked out. But yes, I would've given it a try, and I was open to counseling, new approaches, and all about trying to change the dynamic.
This is fascinating to read, because I think my H could have written something very similar, and I think I have shared your XW's feelings. In our case, H developed resentment and got involved with OW, but he says he tried for years. I expressed unhappiness to H for years, and spelled out what I needed from him to give him what he needed from me, but nothing changed - but I wasn't leaving or cheating on him, that's not my way.
Zues, I wonder about what exactly you tried? If she reacted like me, the anger was frustration over what she saw as unwillingness from your side to give her what she needed.
I think very few women work silently, by themselves on resolving relationship issues. Silence from a woman is rarely a good thing...
I think many men feel that they courted a woman, then married her, and that should prove their love once and for all. My H will say he is simple to please, but he expects me to want to fulfill his needs without doing anything to fulfill mine. He feels that because he is attracted to me on sight, I should be to him. I feel that he puts the cart before the horse in how things should happen. And I feel that he can get what he wants so easily, if he would only invest a little effort in courting me on an ongoing basis. I don't think he feels he should have to. That is frustrating, because I see his pride and ego get in the way of his and our happiness.
And from everything I read, this is exceedingly common. Which is so sad!
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I think many men feel that they courted a woman, then married her, and that should prove their love once and for all. My H will say he is simple to please, but he expects me to want to fulfill his needs without doing anything to fulfill mine. He feels that because he is attracted to me on sight, I should be to him. I feel that he puts the cart before the horse in how things should happen. And I feel that he can get what he wants so easily, if he would only invest a little effort in courting me on an ongoing basis. I don't think he feels he should have to. That is frustrating, because I see his pride and ego get in the way of his and our happiness.
And from everything I read, this is exceedingly common. Which is so sad!
You know what, Painter? This is golden. It is common, and it is sad. Bridging all the past hurts is truly a challenge, but I'm in the camp that thinks it is worth it.
