His indifference and stonewalling has been extremely hurtful. I will admit that I too think about combating this hurt with OP. at least I would know in my heart that I did something equally hurtful and painful. It would not be infidelity because he already left. In a way I am empathising with all those unfaithful spouses that I am very much opposed to.
I do not want to be that person because I know it is an impulsive behavior and long term will devalue me. So i need to get out of this mindset and will. Him reaching out in any way would mean a lot.
I give all of you on here who know their spouses were unfaithful a lot of credit for remaining loyal. I admit you guys are more mature and honorable then me. If I knew my husband was with other woman I am sure I would not have been able to remain committed.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Julie, if my H's affair had been physical I would have left him the day I found out. I know that is not something I could ever get past. The EA was enough to really rock me, but I can understand from a "human" perspective how a friendship can evolve and the line is not clear. I also am tempted by other men now and can see how easy it would be.
Hang in there, you are doing the right thing! I really like your posts because of your honesty and direct way of communication. How are your children?
Kids are driving me nuts! Weather and short days doesn't make it too easy either. Stayed outdoors and very active past few days with no rain but earlier this week was rough. nothing tires them out! They get way too much vacation time. I have to think of something active for rest of today. I don't care how cold it is.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
I need a plan and I'm not sure what it should be... 1. Continue to wait for him to initiate reconciliation. If he does make decision to reconcile, I gain a bit of power. If he lets it go on I suffer in limbo and financially because legally my life gets put on hold. How much longer do I give? 2. Initiate conversation regarding where we are going. Divorce or reconciliation. Disadvantage is that This gives him the power of deciding. It also reveals my level of investment which limits my bargaining power if there is to be reconciliation. Or it could push him torwards divorce. Advantage is that I can move forward guilt free. 3. Tell him that since he has taken no initiation to reconcile, it is better to move forward with divorce. Advantage is that time wise I can work torwards moving forward, working more, and meeting a potential life mate. It fits with my beliefs and gives me back my sense of pride. Disadvantage is he can tell himself this was all me and move forward guilt free when he is the one that left me. My kids might suffer long term. i might regret this long term.
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I don't want to be back on these boards in 5 years, older and with less options either.
Julie, you are in too much of a hurry. You separated in July. This year, right? Now you are talking about getting the D over and meeting other people?
You mention understanding the temptation of OP, you mention not wanting to waste time and opportunity. I understand these feelings, but they are not pure in any way. They are voices of fear and desire. Not sure if you believe in God and Satan, but pretend for a moment, and ask yourself if you can see God telling you to rush through a divorce to your lifelong partner so you can find someone else who will give you what you desire right now.
I understand your M is bad. I understand you are separated. But pondering divorce here to me would be like if your H was in a coma for 5 months, the doctors had seen some increasing brain activity, but he hasn't come out yet and you are impatient, and thinking about unplugging the machine so you can go get with someone else. Yes, that is how I see it.
What's the difference? That it is 'his choice'? I can't remember, who was the poster that was irritated that her WAH said that leaving wasn't a choice, that he COULDN'T stay? Was that you? Either way, I don't think your H felt he had a choice. I disagree in reality, but emotionally he clearly felt he was in a survival situation and was doing what he needed to for self preservation.
He hasn't divorced you. He hasn't broken his vows to the best of your knowledge. Is it that he moved out? Would it be that much different if it was in house separation? What if he was still in the same bedroom but simply avoiding you? I just want to be clear on what he's done that equates to the same in his mind as divorcing you? You also mention "His indifference and stonewalling has been extremely hurtful". Is this cause for divorce?
The reason I ask is that during the last 3 years of my M there were periods of 3-6 months that XW and I didn't speak. Maybe a periodic text about the kids, or a neutral communication. But no connection of any type. If you asked her she would say that I was emotionally abusive, impossible to please, and was controlling her behavior by using silent treatment as a punishment. If you asked me, however, you'd know that I never quit loving her for a moment, and was simply unable to connect because whenever we did we ended up in the same spiral that was simply too painful for me. I believe the majority of men in my situation would have filed, in fact I have pages and pages and pages of entries in which I talk about these ideas in my journal, but I always concluded that she was a good woman, you don't make lifelong decisions when you are at your worst, and that I believed we had the pieces and were supposed to make a M work. For years I told myself this. But there were times when I was so sick of being hurt, so exhausted by the problems, that I felt defeated. In the end I thought I was just setting the marriage down for a minute, counting to ten, regrouping, trying to come up with new ideas or grow in different ways or trying to see if we could find a better way of working together. I will admit I also hoped that she would find some new ways to help bridge the gap, that was before I was reading DB and I still longed for her to change in a few important ways.
But to my surprise she viewed it as conclusive proof that I was emotionally abusive, that our M had never been happy, that we were incompatible, and that the best solution was divorce. Funny, this was clear to her even more after she started talking to her old high school guy friends on facebook, and going out in the evenings to watch one of their baseball games and go to the bar after the game. Yup.
Now 18 months later I seem to have a following of people that tell me XW was a fool, that I'm an inspiration, blah blah blah. I don't know what to think. Am I a horrible husband? Am I an inspirational man with a lot of love and commitment that a woman would be lucky to have? I think both. I think all men can be horrible husbands, some will just leave on top of their horror.
Meanwhile you have a husband that hasn't left yet in my view. You are a married woman. Your H loves you and has expressed interest in working through this, but clearly doesn't know how. And you are talking about getting it over with so you can be with someone else? My XW lasted longer than this!
Sorry Julie, I'm frustrated too, I feel the pain of my failed marriage again in your sitch, and the pain that has been caused to me because of these rushed options, and the overall belief in divorce that triggered my response. So here it is: Divorce is not the answer. You will not find someone better. It will be someone else with problems, built on top of the grief and loss of your former marriage that will NEVER fade, built with underdeveloped marital skills that kept your first marriage from working out, it will be less satisfying, and you will have less of a chance of getting through to your old age. That's the reality. So quit comparing your current sitch to some dream of a 'better man', as long as you compare your H to a fantasy that doesn't exist you're leading yourself down the wrong road. Instead compare your sitch to the brutal reality which is the loss of your husband and marriage. Yes, if this happens you will get through, the same way I am going to. But I would've stayed in a relationship without affection or sex or even conversation for 10 years before I would've gone down this road. This road that SHE chose, no matter how she wants to spin it.
So my advice is to slow down. Also, get a DB coach if you don't have one. I think your H wants to be married to you. All you need to do is avoid blowing up your life with impatience/resentment, and get help to lead the two of you through this in a way that works for you BUT ALSO for HIM.
This is the most important thing you'll do in your life. Step up.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
A clear, spelled out list would be helpful. We lack communication. It has been a major issue.
how do I initiate for a list at this point? Our contact is limited to brief "how are the kids" and "how are you." He asked 1 x when we were at court if I looked into retrovaille and I had said I would call. And then I never discussed it with him. I thought he should follow up and should ask me about it. So yes, it's childish but he left me and I feel if he wants this to work he will make effort and he has not. I told him that his timing for asking for reconciliation was suspicious (right after I filed for child support) and he said "I know you do"
Although being the one to bring things up will get things rolling in 1 direction or the other. He might not even want to work on reconciliation. But if I ask him about it, it demonstrates my level of investment.
After family court, I took Zues advice and validated how awful it must have felt for him etc. and said I was sorry it had to come to this. He responded with short statements of I am sorry too. No more then 6 word sentences. And then nothing was brought up other then handling kids.
Unfortunately it appears that you are the adult in this situation. He's acting like an idiot man-child. That will place the burden on you to drive this process. If this was the old days you could just beat him upside the head with a purse or rolling pin and tell him to cut the crap. Today we over complicate things but just in case, keep a big purse or rolling pin handy. ;-)
The narrative that we are the adult in the relationship has a pro and a con. The pro is that it gives up strength and purpose to stepping up. The con is that it makes it easy to be critical and dismissive of our spouse and to avoid accountability for our own childishness.
Not saying it's wrong, only that we have to take the good and avoid the bad.
He asked about retrouville. What's wrong with simply emailing him and mentioning a few dates that would work for you?
I am not sure he's wrong to not reach out to you. If you two haven't been able to make it work, and everytime you've tried it hasn't gone well, he may feel like 'we need help, let's get help, and let's not mess things up worse until help is available'. Shoot, I'd feel that way, and I think it makes sense. I also would guess he's afraid to open up to you because he's concerned he'll be attached, judged, or dismissed, and that he wants to do so in a 'safe' place where he can be more assured of feeling heard and protected. Given your anger and past together is this really unreasonable of him?
Last edited by Zues126; 01/03/1606:05 PM.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues, I think what you are describing about your "silent treatment" and anger fits my h. Thank you. I am learning a lot from you. I am not giving up on H. Any suggestions you have to break through the silence would be welcome. I don't want to hijack Julie's thread, but I think the advice would be the same. I am listening to H, really listening, not reacting, being patient and open and learning to put aside judgment.
Julie, I missed the retrouvaille reference. Did your H ask to go? I sent my H the link a few weeks ago and asked him to go this summer when he returns. No response. I am curious to know other people's experience with that.
Fo, hijack away. Many of our situations are very similar so conversation is helpful to us all. I was actually going to ask Zues the same question.
Was there anything your wife could have done or said to you that would have helped. Was it her leaving that made you examine your role and perhaps desire to fix things in a new way?
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
For the first time in a while, I felt the strong urge to call him and ask him straight up what is going on. Do you want to work on this or no? If he gives me a no, I move on. I have my answer. Sure it's yet another rejection but I Got through it before. If he says yes we can figure out how. I just called and I am happy he did not pick up phone.
So I went back to that conversation we had prior to going to court...
He had said that he understands that I wanted to try to make things work and has felt like he had been trying for years. That he recognized that I have been doing a lot of things lately....said "I was hoping we could clean slate and give it 1 last try. Take it slow, no guarantees, no expectations. See if it's possible. I'll agree to go to counseling and just see. I have no idea if it's too late or not"
He also said
"Do I think it's gonna be successful? I don't know. At this point I feel we are pretty far gone. " "There's a lot of resentment. You think I abandoned you I think you pushed me out of house and you abandoned me"
This conversation was confusing to me, but gave me hope at a time I had none. I had mentioned to him retrovaille and followed up with a text about it. He asked me about it when we went to court. Then after court we were tense and argued. Argued about me not working full time and this being expensive for him.
Since then neither of us brought anything up and now we only text about kids.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
