Updated/still thinking about next steps

[JellyB]

Thanks PP JellyBxxx



Sometimes Cristy pops in on different sitches. But go to the top of this page and click on telephone counselling tab, or go to contact us tab.

[trumpet]

PigPen,

Way to step up. Thanks for posting. I follow your sitch very closely!

JellyB is spot on.

Your H is a counselor and pastor, Kyrie. He's probably got a counter for every arguement.

I sell cars for a living. I've been doing it for 10 years.
When I go to buy something, like a mattress, I'm completly aware of everything that is said and done in the road to the sale. If you were slightly off your 'game', I could see through the sales pitch. Good salespeople get my respect, and my money. I've heard every excuse in the book for not buying. I can analyze most people's non-verbals to figure out what they're telling me, since people lie, and the non-verbals don't.

To put it together - I think you're the knife, and he's the gun in a gunfight. He's also got loads of ammo.

JellyB is spot on that you need someone qualified to help you through this. Your H is hurting, and from the sounds of it has an addiction, as well as depression.

Like I said at the beginning, I'm no therapist - that's why I'm here, but my concern ratcheted up a notch when you mentioned your daughter. I have a daugther - age 14. I'm SOOOOO glad my addiction is under control, so that I can rest easy, and be a great dad to her. I might fall off the horse in the future - but I understand now that for MY Wife, and for ME, the porn had to go away.

[kyrie]

There are several things in play: chronic alcohol use, the porn, compulsive behaviors (cleanliness, order, buying sometimes).
I know he has so much ammo. He's scared of my nuclear ICBM.
I can't make him understand that he's in control really, and I would never ever do that. I even said I had the capacity to RUIN Jason, my ex, while he was on active duty. I could have destroyed his security clearance (remember, I was active too - lots of ways to do that, esp. when I was a security officer), ruined his chance at retirement,etc. I explained that I could never do that to Jason and I could never to that to him. FWIW.

Bless you Trumpet.

[trumpet]

I'm here every day, and twice on Sunday. Keep posting. Re-read Sandi's rules, and the welcome emails from Cadet. I found things to re-read every couple weeks here.

Have you bought Divorce Remedy? I highly recommend it.

[sandi2]

One other thing that could stir his anger against you, is if he sees what he thinks is an air of self-righteousness about you. Not that you are guilty of it, but it seems to be a tool that Satan likes to use to keep conflict between a M coupled where one of them is struggling with sin. When one partner has more or less been pinned as the backslider and the other one is still trying to live a godly life.......it is not uncommon for the backslider to accuse the other one, and use words such as "perfect, sinless, holy, righteous, etc." in a sneering way. That's why it is really difficult to be the one closest to him, b/c he can resent almost everything you say to him.

I agree that ministers are a favorite target. If the minister falls, look how many people it affects. You want him to get right with God, and to work on the M. We can't force people to confess from a humble heart, seek forgiveness and truly repent.

I think I read where you had reached out to a few you thought could intervene with your H. What about someone helping you, not him...but you. Do you have one person who is spiritually matured enough to keep what you say confidential and give you the guidance and encouragement you need through this trial?

As for getting someone else to talk straight to your H...........I don't know. Maybe, in the right timing, but I think it is important for him to stay out of any roles of leadership in the church. He doesn't need to stop attending, b/c he needs to get his spiritual life straightened out. Here's the thing, as much as you feel desperate to do something about his spiritual condition, you are limited....however, there is nothing stronger than a believer's prayer.

[kyrie]

Oops, I see on page 10 I meant to say it IS a big deal. Ugh.
I haven't bought it, but read most of DR (I think - it may have been DB). I can't keep books around because he'll find them and sharpshoot everything about them.
I don't think anyone answered this:
"Some of the things he said last night was that he wished I stayed up and even initiated or at least showed interest (not in his words). Even after talking about that kind of revelation!

Are you saying I shouldn't continue to show interest, try to meet at least some needs?"
Specifically, the impression I have from both Trumpet and Zues, is that meeting physical needs and I think "180" on being affectionate would help. But sometimes the DB thing seems to be to not pursue or do that. So it's confusing...





I'll answer Sandi then start anew (I guess).
I guess I may come across as self-righteous - dunno how you totally avoid that. He has said I was like a Pharaisee, which is funny because he does that type of behavior!
With those whom I reached out to, I sought advise and help for this sitch. Maybe I wasn't specific about it with them, about only helping me. Most felt really helpless and only offered to pray, etc. until I asked for anything else. They can and have been confidential thus far, but again, they don't know how to deal with the depths of this really.

[Zues126]

"Some of the things he said last night was that he wished I stayed up and even initiated or at least showed interest (not in his words). Even after talking about that kind of revelation!"

I've been trying to back off but will take a shot.

When he opened up to you and told you he used porn, he clearly felt extremely vulnerable at that moment. Would you condemn him as a pervert or accept him as a man? This is what he was wondering. In a man's mind acceptance equates to intimacy, and rejection equates to, well, rejection. So when he hinted that he craved physical intimacy, to me this means he longed for signs that you would love him and accept him for who he was, not reject him and judge him and condemn him. The way you say "Even after this revelation" shows he read the situation correctly. When would he need reassurance and love from you more?

If a man has to be perfect to be deserving of love, that's what leads to feelings of never being good enough, and porn is too easy of an outlet. There are no impossible standards to live up to. In fact I think porn has as much to do with affirming men as it does with release. It simulates the acceptance that men associate with sex. Also, the very fact that it exists validates the desires in their heart that most women don't even admit exist and refuse to acknowledge or satisfy.

Anyway, this is just how I interpret from his point of view.

As for what you SHOULD do...I have my own opinions, but they conflict with others, and if there's anything we agree on it's to get a DB Coach

[kyrie]

I get that Zues - but to expect it, after having revealed the ultimate rejection 1., but 2, I actually reached over to his arm and leaned in for a hug or more in bed. He said he'd rather not. So what should I take away from that? He's conflicted? Or ?

I get rejection from him all the time. He expects me to prove my love that way - for it to be perfect. I don't consciously think that way but I get what you are saying too.
I get that the prostitute and the porn woman is always there, always willing, has no needs of her own, and would never reject him. I totally get that. But I also know that's not real and it is damaging.
Please Zues - I really need to hear your perspective, if you're willing.

[kyrie]

FWIW, I've never been cold like that. I may not initiate the way he might want, but have almost never said no. Even while DBing during the summer, even while I knew he was carrying on long distance, even after figuring out the porn. I never knew that there was some other need...he never said it like that.

[Zues126]

I'm scratching my head a bit at some of this too Kyrie. I just posted a bit on Julie's thread, please read that, there is some overlap. I'll keep reading your sitch and comment when I feel I can help.

Julies thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2638040#Post2638040

Please do start a new thread though. (Isn't newcomers great, you can fill a thread in no time!)