Updated/still thinking about next steps

[JellyB]

Kyrie, Lol, It is really just Zues pet name for me

I agree with Zues on this one, a Db coach would be the best idea.

Regarding your H. Helping professionals in my experience (and I include myself in this) are prone to a superiority complex regarding communication.

We see ourselves as expert, we believe that we already know what the problem is in the relationship - pointing finger at our spouses.

We just need to support you with a conversation that will allow you to see that. We will gift wrap our stuff - in touchy feeling psychobabble, often using condensending kumbaya singing tone, making it sound so reasonable and considered.

Then we get frustrated and angry when you don't see the problem as we do. Ie that you won't recognise all the problems you have that are contributing to the relationship.

We end up exploding becoming abusive and then saying "look how you made me behave, I am reasonable intelligent person who has our relationship at the forefront of my mind when I talk to you, and look you have made me lose control"

Sound familiar Kyrie? It's BS controlling rubbish.

I had a lot of growing up to do and alot of sorting out of my depression related to that ^^^^^^. You cannot help him, he has to want to help himself.

Revisit the couple counselling and even more so the DB coaching for you. Your sitch is complex kyrie.

In the meantime we all support you here to have safe place to fall and talk and laugh at amazing humanity.

Much love

Jellyb XXX

[ARose]

Thank you, all of you. So when he comes and wants to talk, what do I do?
I had decided that I was (again) going to state clearly I'd like to talk, do care about him but will not accept attacks.
In the past he's turned that back to "then it is on your terms and that's why you never change" blah blah blah.
What then?

(and, baby eating??)

Kyrie, when he wants to talk, just listen. Look at the top of the forum, there is a list up there for reference of validating statements. Yes he will know what you are doing. But just listen, don't defend yourself, you can say "I hadn't thought of it that way " or "I am interested in your perspective, I'd like some time to think about what you are saying." You don't have to agree. Actually you probably shouldn't agree. Whatever you do, do not get into an argument with him.

I will get back to your thread tomorrow. I am too tired to put much into my comments right now, and I want to give you my full attention. In the meantime, I know I will probably ask you about your goals, and what you are doing for self care so be prepared for those questions. I hope you have a good night. I am going to try to get some sleep. Take care and I will be back.

[TxHubby]

What do you do in this sitch? He has no desire to change - only for me to change. I've made every effort and it is sooner or later met with vitriol and hate thrown in my face that I never change. It's brought me to the point of just plain quitting - either in-house separatation or more.
I have a feeling that's not the right choice...but what to do??? His manipulation and self-centeredness has no end.

For Christmas you bought him presents, he bought himself expensive presents and got you nothing? Are you kidding me? He's a total ass. Don't allow yourself to be disrespected like that. Please demand better treatment. Nobody ever respects a doormat. He'll just keep treating you like sh!t. Be strong.

[kyrie]

yeah. FO.2, I did that for months. Last night was extremely intense. I got on here to check what was posted and started to type a few things. He saw that I was typing "to someone" and assumed all kinds of things... we got into so much crap - I threw a lot of stuff at him about what he had done online, etc (with his OW) and how he never showed any repentance, etc.
He'll twist and shape the conversation to putting me on the defensive no matter how much I try to avoid it.

TxHubby, he thinks all I do is demand. When I say I don't want to talk disrespectfully and he starts cursing at me & I walk away, he accuses me of controlling the conversation and not working on things. When I explain there's a difference between not playing into his tantrum and not wanting to talk, he accuses me of only doing things "my way". I'm so sick of it.
He treats me like $hit no matter what I do.

It was really bad last night. He stayed up and drank all night. Sent me nasty texts. Told me he did not care about my feelings (duh, obviously).

[kyrie]

[quote=kyrie]I guess I can't let go of wanting to be married...wanting the right thing for my family. Is that what you mean?

Kyrie, I would never suggest to anyone that they let go of marraige that didn't place someone's life at risk. I am social worker who works with parents that abuse each other and their children. In 15 years of doing this work, I have seen some parents, husband and wives made radical change to get the families and partnerships they want, that are safe and loving.

It's so hard when I know there are little tiny glimmers of hope here & there.

Tonight I saw that he was looking at passive-agressive books on Amazon. At first I thought he'd "recommend" them to me - he accuses me of that but it fits him more! But then I realized maybe he was considering them for himself. Dunno.

Let him look and read and educate himself, if his motivation is to gain more understanding of you. Then let him be. He may well be looking for a means of diagnosing you for all you faults but that's not your business right now.


Save myself - I seriously have examined and repented of my many mistakes. I keep making many of them - usually when he assails me (emotionally).

Kyrie I am no judge of your need to repent, that is between you and your God. My description of saving yourself is the old adage of putting your own oxygen mask on first, before you assist a loved one.

I read back over your previous threads last night. My sense of your description is that you and H are caught in a high conflict communication cycle, with you both needing to be right about the other. Sounds like so much hurt and accusation and blame. And throw what also sounds like MLC on top. It reads like the two of your a mirroring back to each pain and hurt, pain and hurt Well it just sounds increadiably hard.

Someone, likely you Kyrie needs to get off this exhausting tredmill. It really does go no where and you sound lost and defeated. It also sounds from what you write that you feel responsible for fixing whatever is broken in the M and in H.

The thing is Kryrie you don't have that level of control or power. You only have the ability over you. That is what I meant saving yourself.

I read that you have a background in the Miltary. I make an assumption that you have a good understanding of self discipline and self control, that you know how to take plan and make it work to the advantage of you and your unit or team.


Likely what I am about to say is going to sound impossible. But Kyrie it likely needs to be done. Get that miltary game back on. It's time to get your heart out of the game and get yourself a strategy. DBing is the strategy.

H thinks your game playing, well potentially this is the case. Likely what he is seeing is you moving in and out of your Dbing and it confuses him.

Time to commit to a plan. And Kyrie the plan really doesn't involve much of H doing anything other than him being exactly who he is right NOW. The more you accept that H is going to keep turning up everyday looking and behaving exactly how he is the more you work your plan.

180, no R talk, GAL, see counsellor and work on you, build your self esteem and confidence, get yourself a spew jacket, and start emotionally separating yourself from H view of you and this M.


And thank you. I don't want to do the wrong thing.

and Kryie, there is no wrong on this journey, it just is. no more judgement sweet lady. Kindness to yourself makes this an easier road.

Please read Fo's threads, she is one of the bravest Dber's here. She has alot to contend with on many levels, she struggles but Fo keeps working her plan and she stands tall in the work she does and she has a spirit and zest for life which is simply amazing.

As Zues said, I am here for moral support. There are too many others here, who are so much better at offering real workable advice and stratgies, But I do make a great cheerleader.

Please post on other's threads, they will get to know you and you them. That is when the real change happens. The change that frees you from some of the pain and stuckness attached to your sitch. quote]

[ARose]

Kyrie, so you are still living together? In the same bedroom? How often are you "arguing"? Are any of your interactions going ok, or are they all negative? Are you co-parenting well? How is this affecting the children?

Also, you've been in "crisis" for a long time. How is your health? Eating ok? Sleeping? Getting exercise? What kind of support system do you have?

[kyrie]

I read back over your previous threads last night. My sense of your description is that you and H are caught in a high conflict communication cycle, with you both needing to be right about the other. Sounds like so much hurt and accusation and blame. And throw what also sounds like MLC on top. It reads like the two of your a mirroring back to each pain and hurt, pain and hurt Well it just sounds increadiably hard.

Yes, I think that's true.

Someone, likely you Kyrie needs to get off this exhausting tredmill. It really does go no where and you sound lost and defeated. It also sounds from what you write that you feel responsible for fixing whatever is broken in the M and in H.

I feel responsible for *my part*... and sometimes more. But I do know I have to be responsible for my part.

The thing is Kyrie you don't have that level of control or power. You only have the ability over you. That is what I meant saving yourself.

I read that you have a background in the Miltary. I make an assumption that you have a good understanding of self discipline and self control, that you know how to take plan and make it work to the advantage of you and your unit or team.


Likely what I am about to say is going to sound impossible. But Kyrie it likely needs to be done. Get that miltary game back on. It's time to get your heart out of the game and get yourself a strategy. DBing is the strategy.

H thinks your game playing, well potentially this is the case. Likely what he is seeing is you moving in and out of your Dbing and it confuses him.

Time to commit to a plan. And Kyrie the plan really doesn't involve much of H doing anything other than him being exactly who he is right NOW. The more you accept that H is going to keep turning up everyday looking and behaving exactly how he is the more you work your plan.

180, no R talk, GAL, see counsellor and work on you, build your self esteem and confidence, get yourself a spew jacket, and start emotionally separating yourself from H view of you and this M.
[/color]

Him being exactly who he is, means he will continue to assail me with this stuff, expecting to "talk through it", but only in his warped, tightly controlled way. There is no out, no end, no solution. He expects responses & replies, not simple validation and listening. THat's why I'm so stuck.
Yes, I DO want him to change, to get better, to be the leader he should be and desperately wants to be. But I know he's not ready and nothing I do will make him do those things.
This is where I'm stuck. I feel like the ONLY thing that he will *get* is separation/ending it. That might be his rock bottom.

And Fo.2, yes, same bedroom, etc. It was nearly every night for months for a while. Sometimes they go well but mostly negative. The children are mostly shielded but they know it is not "nice" right now.
I take care of myself for the most part. My heart and soul hurt to no end, but physically I'm ok. Yes, regular exercise has been very helpful.
Not much of a real support system...

[kyrie]

In fact, my taking care of myself (gym regularly, etc) tends to get ...attention. Yeah, I like it but I'm not seeking it.
That's created some interesting reactions from him.

Sorry about that above - don't know how to quote well...
In front of the girls we kinda make it work. Mostly. The frustrating thing is, we make a lot of things work well. Finances, raising the girls, schedules.
It is all so insane.

[ARose]

Kyrie, I have been running around like a crazy person this week, usually I have more time to post. I have been thinking about your situation. Of course, you need to avoid R talks if at all possible. And follow Sandy's rules. But I am wondering. You have some strengths in your marriage. You admit that you make a lot of things work well. I am thinking you need to focus on your strengths right now. There is something between the two of you that is working, some common ground and ability to get some things right.

Can you talk to your H about what is going well? Words of affirmation maybe, "I appreciate that you handled the kids activities today" or "thank you for keeping up with the taxes," or similar? Can you find a way to do more of the activities you two "get right" as a couple? More activities with the kids, more financial planning? Without pursuing, that is the hard balance.

When your H spews at you, is it possible to walk away? Can you say "I am finding this conversation too intense/too overwhelming for me, I am going for a little walk and would love to revisit this when my head is clear." And then leave the house for 20 minutes or so.

And finally, you need a support system. This board has been by far the best support for me, but you need "real life" friends to get out with. Is there a group with your church, or a women's meetup group, book club, bible study, walking group- anything that interests you and can get you interacting with other women on a regular basis? Or maybe get together for a girls night out with your children's friend's mothers? For me, being in the company of other women has been the biggest blessing since BD- I had never really connected with my friends as much as I do now.

I am glad you are posting and I hope you have a very happy new year.

[kyrie]

Thanks Fo.2 - no need to worry about me! You have enough going on. He forces the R(relationship?) talks. Nothing is ever good, or affirmative, unless he's talking about himself. When I try to show gratitude, he reacts by saying he doesn't need to hear what I think of him nor my thanks in any way. I have asked about activities, etc, and the direct approach is usually met with extreme rage. Walking away also provokes rage/reaction. Going out has stirred the same reactions... but he won't admit exactly why he gets upset. He's probably upset that I'm talking *about* him online right this very moment.
Happy new year.