The first thing a starving man wants to do after he is rescued is eat. If all of a sudden you seem to be open to sexual advance, of course your husband is going to take advantage of it becuase in his mind he damn well better take advantage of it while its there because it'll be over again soon and he'll be right back where he was.
You said that you told your husband if he did more of the gift giving and acts of service you would feel like ML more and his response was "if I did everything you still wouldn't want to ML". Now this sounds harsh, but what would your response have been if you were in his shoes? I mean, sit there and think about it for a minute and really really try to see this from his point of view. Did the lack of intimacy in the marriage start because he wasn't doing enough to show you how much he loves you or did it start because you began to turn him down and the more you did it the easier it got for you? At the point that it all started were you getting all of your needs met? How bout what he needed? I think these are fair questions for you to ask yourself. If you come back with the answer that it started with your actions, then you have to take the responsibility for that and recognize that he does in fact have a reason to say such a thing. From his point of view, he tried what he could and it didn't get him anything in terms of what he needed, so why should he keep doing it?
Please take that as I meant it. Not as an attack on you or placing blame, but rather acceptance of responsibility. This started with one persons actions or inaction and it much end with one persons action. Inaction is not an option for fixing it.
Now your other question really equates to "Does this fix have to be all or nothing." And no it doesn't is the answer that I would give. At first it may seem that way though. Like I said, a starving man wants to eat before he does anything else. Its going to tak him a while to get over it, but once you make it plain that this is not a temporary phase that you've gotten into, it'll even out. You don't even have to say yes all the time. Like I told the other poster, its not the occasional rejection, its the CONSTANT rejection that kills us. "Not tonight, but definitely tomorrow morning" is much better than "No."
I think that once you get going on this, you're going to find that your husband will become far more helpful around the house. You're going to eventually start getting those gifts and acts of service that you crave. He probably won't even be doing it intentionally, but he will eventually start doing it because he's in love again. And if he doesn't and you've held up your end of this bargain, then it'll be time for HIM to accept responsibility for HIS actions and start doing something about it.
Hairdog and Newlywed, as always, thanks for your replies.
I think that it was a mutual thing for both of us as far as who started the downward spiral. When we were first dating, H used to bring me a rose every time he came to my house (of course, I lived two blocks from a grocery store with a floral department), for example. Once he moved in, the roses stopped. Spontaneous gifts have never been his strong suit and gifts on normal gift giving occasions have also started to dry up. Acts of service have always been few and far between b/c H is not the handiest guy in the world and it pains him to have to call his BIL or father every time something needs to be done around here. I accept that and am always very appreciatve whenever anything gets fixed, no matter who does the fixing.
I really can't pinpoint when the SSM situation started. I had a bout where I was on Paxil and didn't feel like ML for the life of me. If I was pressed to put a timeframe on the SSM situation, I'd say it sort of began there and like you both said, it just got comfortable after a while. H got more and more upset/confrontational/argumentative/whiny and I kept digging my heels in further. But I have realized like you also said that change can come from one person, so right now, I am the one making the change.
I did catch H making a mental list of things that he wanted to fix around here after supper tonight...so things may be looking up in the Acts of Service department.
Acts of Service, I think, encompass more than just the traditionally male chores. My wife loves my cooking (something I'm better at than her), and I know she likes a clean house so I try to dust or vacuum when I can. I also do things with our daughter, to give my W time to be by herself, which is an act of service. Lots of things besides handyman stuff (which I can do, but I'm not the greatest at).
Good point hairdog. I do at least 95% of the household chores also, H does minimal cleaning and none of the cooking. I would love for him to take over some of those tasks as I always come home from work with a to-do list a mile long while he sits in front of the TV or on the computer or goes to the gym.
Quote: I always come home from work with a to-do list a mile long while he sits in front of the TV or on the computer or goes to the gym.
I'd be a little resentful of that, unless he's disabled, works in a coal mine, or has some other iron-clad reason not to pitch in. When you cook, does he clean up afterward? I used to do both, but set a boundary recently that if I do one, she does the other. It didn't go over well, but I'm standing firm.
If he's not pitching in because cleaning and cooking are "women's work," welcome him to the new millenium. It might have been women's work in the 1950s, but now, especially when both spouses work, it's just housework, and I think it's gender neutral.
I agree that housework is gender neutral, but the overall division of duties has to be fair and equitable. W and I agreed right in the beginning that when the kids arrived, she would be a stay-at-home mom, and I would support the family. Since that time she has never worked for money, except nominally from time to time. I don't resent that. However, supporting a family of five in anything resembling a middle-class lifestyle these days is next to impossible, and a HUGE responsibility. We've made a LOT of sacrifices to make it possible. In addition to "bringing home the bacon", my responsibilities include general maintenance, which has often included plumbing, electrical, small (and large) appliance repair, interior construction, etc. etc. So... I don't cook (nobody would want to eat anything I prepare, except on the Bar-B), I don't do laundry or iron, I don't vacuum or tidy up generally, although I don't leave stuff laying all over, either. We also have 3 healthy kids who can pick up the slack, if they were ever expected to. Yes, we're old-fashioned, but that is the "contract" we agreed to. Several times I have broached the subject of whether she would be willing to get a job of some kind to help with the finances, (at which point the whole contract gets renegotiated, with me taking a much more active role at home) but she has said "not interested".
I'm not attacking the more "traditional" roles. My comments were focused on the two-income families, of which cattlekid appears to be a member. If the arrangement you and your wife have works, that's great. If she's getting resentful because you come home and plop down on your butt and watch hockey, then you need to address that.
I am trying so hard to take away all of my wife's excuses for not ML with me. She'll always have stress, she can always claim to be tired, she can say she's itchy or too hot or too cold or that her allergies are bothering her. But I don't want her to say "no" because the living room needs to be dusted.
Quote: I'd be a little resentful of that, unless he's disabled, works in a coal mine, or has some other iron-clad reason not to pitch in. When you cook, does he clean up afterward? I used to do both, but set a boundary recently that if I do one, she does the other. It didn't go over well, but I'm standing firm.
If he's not pitching in because cleaning and cooking are "women's work," welcome him to the new millenium. It might have been women's work in the 1950s, but now, especially when both spouses work, it's just housework, and I think it's gender neutral.
I really wish I knew what his thing was about chores. No matter if they are inside chores or outside chores, they always take a back seat. I grew up in a home that looked like a museum both inside and out. Obviously, that will not happen here as we both work full-time (my mother did not work outside the home). But there is still a level of cleanliness both outside and inside that I feel we need to maintain so that I can feel comfortable and relaxed. If the house is a wreck, then I start to get tense and ML is the last thing on my mind.
Now...how to get H to help? I have asked for help in the past and it has not been forthcoming. So I continue to do everything and drop into bed dead tired from being in constant movement from 6 AM to 10 PM. Not a situation compatible with being available and interested in ML....
Quote: I really wish I knew what his thing was about chores.
Let me try, under the dangerous assumption that his problem with chores is similar to my problem with chores. My love languages are Quality Time and Touching. I suspect that my wife's are Acts of Service and Words of Affirmation, but she mainly asks for Acts of Service.
I'm really looking for romantic connection, and whenever I bring up the subject, she starts talking about chores. Until recently, I didn't see any connection at all between chores and romance, and it basically felt like all she wants from me is practical help around the house and a good steady income. To me, that felt like she wanted a more responsible roommate, but not a husband. That was really depressing, and didn't motivate me at all. As I experienced it, it looked like this:
I'm looking for love. She's giving me chores.
Emotionally, there's nothing warm and human and inviting about chores for me. If she gently reminds me in a non-judging manner, it does help me do a better job with the chores, if she harps on me then I feel like the chores are more important to her than the relationship, especially when I'm not getting love in the ways that I understand.
When we're spending some quality time together and doing some cuddling, chores get a lot easier. I'm not as blocked on this issue as I used to be (though I'm still not great at it). If sex could be part of the picture, I imagine that would help a lot too.
